5 ms·

> I think this is a common viewpoint, and a misconception. Probably a common viewpoint, but definitely not a misconception. I have had freshers tell me wrong

> I think this is a common viewpoint, and a misconception. Probably a common viewpoint, but definitely not a misconception. I have had freshers tell me wrong answers which they know they are answering wrong with so much confidence. And you keep digging them on their answer and they would keep coming up with even more wrong stuff. It would probably be about 2 or 3 out of 10 freshers who can say "i don't know that".

maccard 6y ago
And I've had senior candidates (with 10+ years experience) do the same thing, even after throwing them a lifeline. This isn't a trait of junior-ity (is that a word?), it's a behaviour. I suspect if you interviewed those 7 or 8 juniors in 10-15 years, many of them will continue to bolster.
- severine 6y ago
  junior-ity (is that a word?) Seems so: This word is first recorded in the period 1590–1600. Source: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/juniority https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/juniori...
sokoloff 6y ago
I have sometimes interviewed to specifically find whether a candidate could utter “I don’t know” (and ideally add “, but here’s how I’d handle it, find out, learn it, etc.”) It’s amazing (and a little amusing) how many people literally can’t admit they don’t know something. I have “passed” some otherwise very strong candidates who couldn’t admit that and made it a point to advise them after hiring how dangerous that limitation is both when doing the actual work and when interviewing. A not at all surprising fraction of them couldn’t admit/understand they even did it, of course.
- BossingAround 6y ago
  > I have sometimes interviewed to specifically find whether a candidate could utter “I don’t know” (and ideally add “, but here’s how I’d handle it, find out, learn it, etc.”) I've done the same. The problem is that in a lot of companies, uttering "I don't know" is perceived as a weakness, and makes you "not a culture fit," so I can completely understand the hesitation...
  - frandroid 6y ago
    That's what you call a self-solving problem. You don't want to work for these companies. :)
- sethammons 6y ago
  That happened in my interview for my first real programming job. One of the founders kept making the scale of the problem harder and harder, and at a certain threshold, I no longer knew what to do. I said so, and what I would try to do to figure it out. At the time, I was sure I had failed the interview. Turns out, it was exactly what they were looking for, and my life has wildly changed for the better for having worked with that company.
- wott 6y ago
  > It’s amazing (and a little amusing) how many people literally can’t admit they don’t know something. It is a matter of culture too. I'll take the example of the desk clerks you have to face as a citizen or customer in administrations and companies. When I lived in a country of Northern Europe, they would often say "I am not sure, wait a minute and let me check in that book" or "I don't know, I will ask/check and call/mail you right away". And they did it and it was fine. A tiny delay and everything is solved for good. You come out from there with a smile and they have learned something for the next time they meet the case. Now that I am back in my Southern European country, the guys (well, it's 99% women) in the same position will never admit they don't know or they aren't sure of something. They will assert whatever weird/outdated/wrong assumption comes through their mind with definite certainty. Even if you gathered information beforehand and tell them that the rule says otherwise. They feel that checking or asking for help would undermine their authority or make them look incompetent (as if anyone still had any hope about that...). And they will only call the higher up when, after 2 months and the 3rd visit for nothing except getting contradictory information and requirements, you start yelling and they feel that they are less than 30 seconds away from getting punched in their face. Then the higher up solves the problem (which should never have become a problem in first place) in 2 minutes. But they will keep on 'working' like this for 40 years, they'll never recognise that their work and service would be much more efficient if they just said "I don't know" instead of inventing wrong rules.
  - partyboat1586 6y ago
    How do you find yourself in so many of these on-the-verge-of-a-facepunch situations?
    - barrenko 6y ago
      I think the Souther Europe part covers it. That's my experience as well.
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  As another commentator said, the problem is often less the person and more the fact that saying 'I don't know' is a massive negative in most interview settings. It was something I noticed when I was interviewing for job positions. Any time I said 'I'm not sure' or 'I don't know' and followed up with 'I'd have to look at the manpage' or 'look up the documentation' either the interviewer would express disappointment or continue to press the question in order to get even a wrong answer. Many interviewers are looking for you to perfectly regurgitate canned answers rather than admit when you don't have something memorized.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

maccard 6y ago

And I've had senior candidates (with 10+ years experience) do the same thing, even after throwing them a lifeline. This isn't a trait of junior-ity (is that a word?), it's a behaviour. I suspect if you interviewed those 7 or 8 juniors in 10-15 years, many of them will continue to bolster.

severine 6y ago
junior-ity (is that a word?) Seems so: This word is first recorded in the period 1590–1600. Source: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/juniority https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/juniori...

sokoloff 6y ago

I have sometimes interviewed to specifically find whether a candidate could utter “I don’t know” (and ideally add “, but here’s how I’d handle it, find out, learn it, etc.”) It’s amazing (and a little amusing) how many people literally can’t admit they don’t know something. I have “passed” some otherwise very strong candidates who couldn’t admit that and made it a point to advise them after hiring how dangerous that limitation is both when doing the actual work and when interviewing. A not at all surprising fraction of them couldn’t admit/understand they even did it, of course.

BossingAround 6y ago
> I have sometimes interviewed to specifically find whether a candidate could utter “I don’t know” (and ideally add “, but here’s how I’d handle it, find out, learn it, etc.”) I've done the same. The problem is that in a lot of companies, uttering "I don't know" is perceived as a weakness, and makes you "not a culture fit," so I can completely understand the hesitation...
- frandroid 6y ago
  That's what you call a self-solving problem. You don't want to work for these companies. :)
sethammons 6y ago
That happened in my interview for my first real programming job. One of the founders kept making the scale of the problem harder and harder, and at a certain threshold, I no longer knew what to do. I said so, and what I would try to do to figure it out. At the time, I was sure I had failed the interview. Turns out, it was exactly what they were looking for, and my life has wildly changed for the better for having worked with that company.
wott 6y ago
> It’s amazing (and a little amusing) how many people literally can’t admit they don’t know something. It is a matter of culture too. I'll take the example of the desk clerks you have to face as a citizen or customer in administrations and companies. When I lived in a country of Northern Europe, they would often say "I am not sure, wait a minute and let me check in that book" or "I don't know, I will ask/check and call/mail you right away". And they did it and it was fine. A tiny delay and everything is solved for good. You come out from there with a smile and they have learned something for the next time they meet the case. Now that I am back in my Southern European country, the guys (well, it's 99% women) in the same position will never admit they don't know or they aren't sure of something. They will assert whatever weird/outdated/wrong assumption comes through their mind with definite certainty. Even if you gathered information beforehand and tell them that the rule says otherwise. They feel that checking or asking for help would undermine their authority or make them look incompetent (as if anyone still had any hope about that...). And they will only call the higher up when, after 2 months and the 3rd visit for nothing except getting contradictory information and requirements, you start yelling and they feel that they are less than 30 seconds away from getting punched in their face. Then the higher up solves the problem (which should never have become a problem in first place) in 2 minutes. But they will keep on 'working' like this for 40 years, they'll never recognise that their work and service would be much more efficient if they just said "I don't know" instead of inventing wrong rules.
- partyboat1586 6y ago
  How do you find yourself in so many of these on-the-verge-of-a-facepunch situations?
  - barrenko 6y ago
    I think the Souther Europe part covers it. That's my experience as well.
fzeroracer 6y ago
As another commentator said, the problem is often less the person and more the fact that saying 'I don't know' is a massive negative in most interview settings. It was something I noticed when I was interviewing for job positions. Any time I said 'I'm not sure' or 'I don't know' and followed up with 'I'd have to look at the manpage' or 'look up the documentation' either the interviewer would express disappointment or continue to press the question in order to get even a wrong answer. Many interviewers are looking for you to perfectly regurgitate canned answers rather than admit when you don't have something memorized.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]