4 ms·

It’s not about comparing policy from the top down but rather comparing public opinion of the virus from the bottom up. Asian cultures have take the virus much

by j7ake 6y ago

It’s not about comparing policy from the top down but rather comparing public opinion of the virus from the bottom up. Asian cultures have take the virus much more seriously than European cultures and regardless of government policy that is going to be a major determinant of how much the virus spreads. Put in another way, two countries can apply the exact same policy against the virus but have diverging outcomes because of public opinion of the government, of the virus, and of their fellow citizens.

twblalock 6y ago
How do you explain the differences in outcome between European countries, or even just between the Scandinavian countries?
- dynamite-ready 6y ago
  Geography is part of it too. Some countries are densely populated, and some aren't. And echoing the comment about behaviour, the difference between the culture of say, Norway and Britain, is vast in some respects. Or even the likes of Germany and Italy, which are neighbours.
  - account42 6y ago
    > Germany and Italy, which are neighbours. I think Austria and Switzerland would like to have a word with you.
    - dynamite-ready 6y ago
      Yes. You're right. But if you travel to North Italy in the summer, you see so many cars with German license plates, you wonder about the geography! I stand, corrected.
  - shafyy 6y ago
    There's even big differences on Covid death rates within Switzerland's German-speaking, Italian-speaking, and French-speaking regions. Much higher death rates in the Italian and French parts than the German part [0]. One explanation could be different cultures, or just geographical proxomit to Italy and France that were harder hit than Germany and Austria. This would also explain that Germany has higher rates in states that are close to the French border. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Switzerla...
  - NorwegianDude 6y ago
    It's not strongly related to any of those things. The situation would be very bad in Norway/Denmark too if we didn't react like we did. Compared to both Sweden and Britain, Norway reacted quicker and harder, with way more testing than most other countries. As it got out of hand, even more restrictions like shutting down a lot of business types, public transportation, schools and travel was added. Working from home was also recommended and used by basically everyone who could. Long after this happened in Norway, things where mostly as usual in both Sweden and Britain, despite the number of infections climbing fast.
  - new2628 6y ago
    > Germany and Italy, which are neighbours. This is new to me :) Your point stands of course..
    - dynamite-ready 6y ago
      Yeah. I shouldn't be using experiential or anecdotal evidence to inform my understanding of geographic borders! System 1 thinking in action.
georgespencer 6y ago
My partner (American w/ Chinese parents) strongly believes a major difference is the sense of collective responsibility in Asia. A kind of deferral of individuality to benefit society.
- twblalock 6y ago
  Fine, but how does that explain disparities in outcome between European countries?
  - fluffything 6y ago
    A German college truly believes that this virus was created by Adolf Gates to enrich themselves with the pandemic while helping China destroy the German economy.
    - solarkraft 6y ago
      The scene around conspiracy theorists Heiko Schrang and Attila Hildmann sure is fascinating. Wearing masks is the ultimate evil to them, for some reason.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    Collectivism/individualism and obedience towards the state/authorities are very different within EU as well.
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    There are singificant cultural differences. According to an italian friend of mine many italians disrespected the distancing measures, plus there are differences in how closely people generally interact and their living situations.
  - georgespencer 6y ago
    It doesn't, and it doesn't need to for it to be true.
ganafagol 6y ago
And that's the case with Sweden too. What many foreigners, incl media abroad, does not realize is that Swedens reaction was not that different to other European countries in terms of goal. Flatten the curve. In terms of means it differed, it uses recommendations. But people trust government much more than other countries, so in practice the life of many Swedes was restricted very similar to other countries. It's just wrong to say they are being "lax" here. If any other country would have tried the same means, it would hve failed utterly. Just as you say -- two countries doing the same policy could get very different outcomes.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by j7ake 6y ago

twblalock 6y ago

How do you explain the differences in outcome between European countries, or even just between the Scandinavian countries?

dynamite-ready 6y ago
Geography is part of it too. Some countries are densely populated, and some aren't. And echoing the comment about behaviour, the difference between the culture of say, Norway and Britain, is vast in some respects. Or even the likes of Germany and Italy, which are neighbours.
- account42 6y ago
  > Germany and Italy, which are neighbours. I think Austria and Switzerland would like to have a word with you.
  - dynamite-ready 6y ago
    Yes. You're right. But if you travel to North Italy in the summer, you see so many cars with German license plates, you wonder about the geography! I stand, corrected.
- shafyy 6y ago
  There's even big differences on Covid death rates within Switzerland's German-speaking, Italian-speaking, and French-speaking regions. Much higher death rates in the Italian and French parts than the German part [0]. One explanation could be different cultures, or just geographical proxomit to Italy and France that were harder hit than Germany and Austria. This would also explain that Germany has higher rates in states that are close to the French border. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Switzerla...
- NorwegianDude 6y ago
  It's not strongly related to any of those things. The situation would be very bad in Norway/Denmark too if we didn't react like we did. Compared to both Sweden and Britain, Norway reacted quicker and harder, with way more testing than most other countries. As it got out of hand, even more restrictions like shutting down a lot of business types, public transportation, schools and travel was added. Working from home was also recommended and used by basically everyone who could. Long after this happened in Norway, things where mostly as usual in both Sweden and Britain, despite the number of infections climbing fast.
- new2628 6y ago
  > Germany and Italy, which are neighbours. This is new to me :) Your point stands of course..
  - dynamite-ready 6y ago
    Yeah. I shouldn't be using experiential or anecdotal evidence to inform my understanding of geographic borders! System 1 thinking in action.

georgespencer 6y ago

My partner (American w/ Chinese parents) strongly believes a major difference is the sense of collective responsibility in Asia. A kind of deferral of individuality to benefit society.

twblalock 6y ago
Fine, but how does that explain disparities in outcome between European countries?
- fluffything 6y ago
  A German college truly believes that this virus was created by Adolf Gates to enrich themselves with the pandemic while helping China destroy the German economy.
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    The scene around conspiracy theorists Heiko Schrang and Attila Hildmann sure is fascinating. Wearing masks is the ultimate evil to them, for some reason.
- luckylion 6y ago
  Collectivism/individualism and obedience towards the state/authorities are very different within EU as well.
- solarkraft 6y ago
  There are singificant cultural differences. According to an italian friend of mine many italians disrespected the distancing measures, plus there are differences in how closely people generally interact and their living situations.
- georgespencer 6y ago
  It doesn't, and it doesn't need to for it to be true.

ganafagol 6y ago

And that's the case with Sweden too. What many foreigners, incl media abroad, does not realize is that Swedens reaction was not that different to other European countries in terms of goal. Flatten the curve. In terms of means it differed, it uses recommendations. But people trust government much more than other countries, so in practice the life of many Swedes was restricted very similar to other countries. It's just wrong to say they are being "lax" here. If any other country would have tried the same means, it would hve failed utterly. Just as you say -- two countries doing the same policy could get very different outcomes.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]