5 ms·

Dog able to verbally communicate with people

36 points by anw 6y ago

thih9 6y ago
I feel like this is missing some context. E.g. the word “mad” seems complex; how has this been introduced and how do we know that this is what the dog is trying to communicate?
- prewett 6y ago
  There’s context in the details about the video. Apparently the owner didn’t leave like normal and didn’t give the dog her customary treat on leaving.
  - thih9 6y ago
    I was referring to the context related to the learning process and word meaning, the description doesn't explain that. The other comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23767827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23767827 links to an article with more details. This is what I was missing.
    - prewett 6y ago
      This article is much more detailed, thanks!
Udik 6y ago
Hmm, so what the dog wants to communicate is that she wants a food treat. Not exactly unexpected. Reminds me of the famous Gary Larson's comic: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1d/b5/27/1db5279f8a07f1601bf75a92caf9db0a.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1d/b5/27/1db5279f8a07f1601bf7...
- SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
  > so what the dog wants to communicate is that she wants a food treat. More like "I want my usual food treat, I didn't get it today". Have you ever been late to feed a cat its regular meal? You will hear about it.
- majewsky 6y ago
  Well, a lot of us only show up for work because we want our money treat. :)
ajani 6y ago
What breed is that dog?
- mthoms 6y ago
  I'm wondering the same. Its size and shape suggests Border Collie but fur color + length says otherwise. Edit: I just found it. Blue Healer and Catahoula mix.
ajuc 6y ago
So she gets attention when she touches the buttons and gets food when she pushes "eat". I like the idea but I don't think you can conclude it's communication any more than a rat pressing a lever to get his brain stimulated was.
- nix23 6y ago
  Well it is communication (would be really bad if animals could not communicate, especially animals that hunt in a pack). But yeah that button pushing is the opposite of extending communication.
- LyndsySimon 6y ago
  I've come across these videos on TikTok many times - Stella has a much larger apparent vocabulary than "I need attention" and "food". From memory, there's another video out there somewhere of her pressing "Stella" "want" "walk". Her owner says "But Stella, we just went for a walk." The dog's response is "Stella" "want" "walk" "again" <delay, looks at owner> "now".
nix23 6y ago
Every Dog does that all the time..it's not special, he bark's or pushes me with the nose, i ask food? If he look's down with his eyes rolling to the left as if there is a virtual bowl i know he want's food, if its not food he goes to the door and pushes the door with the nose, if cuddles he presses his body against my leg. The only difference here is that this poor dog had to learn howto use color buttons because his (former?)-owner (probably) cannot interpret his face or gestures.
- Jaruzel 6y ago
  > use color buttons Even though dogs are colourblind. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - nix23 6y ago
    But not colorblind as in b/w: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/200810/can-dogs-see-colors https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/200810...
  - karimmaassen 6y ago
    They are dichromatic and thus can see color, only different than we do and somewhat limited.
  - jmiskovic 6y ago
    Buttons were introduced one by one. Also, when they moved into another apartment, the dog was trying out various buttons to see what phrase is where. Seems like colors don't have a role here.
aetherspawn 6y ago
This dog has been trained to press the Eat button to get food. It has not been trained to form sentences?
- Diti 6y ago
  It definitely has been trained to form sentences. Haven’t you watched the other videos? There are several instances of the dog refusing food unless its owner acknowledges what it has to say first.
matthewsinclair 6y ago
This dog and its button pushing communication system have come up a few times here on HN. It really does seem incredible. I trained my dog to ring a bell to go in and out of the back door whenever he wants, but this is on a whole other level. How do we know this isn’t just a sophisticated version of the “The Clever Hans Effect”? [1] I’d love to believe this is what it looks like, but my skeptical radar is tingling. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans
jmiskovic 6y ago
https://www.hungerforwords.com/post/teaching-my-dog-to-talk-1 https://www.hungerforwords.com/post/teaching-my-dog-to-talk-... This is a fascinating summary of training process and accomplished results. Author is speech therapist for children and applies similar approach instead of rewarding dog for just pressing buttons. Most of comments here are too dismissive of methods and results.
- cam_l 6y ago
  People do not want to believe animals are sentient and can communicate. They often spend their whole lives ignoring the evidence plainly in front of their own eyes. Hell, they used to do this with other humans.. I would argue this training is not about teaching the dog to communicate, they already do that. This is teaching the dog to communicate in a way that is understandable and verifiable to people other than their owner. My dog learned to cough to get my attention and then point to the thing he wanted, or give me a look he knew I would understand. Barking at me would often just get my frustration, but he was so excited when he found out that we could both make the same noise coughing. After that, he would only bark if he was mad. Communication, but not with repeatable, verifiable 'words'.
  - diffrinse 6y ago
    > Hell, they used to do this with other humans.. There are enough that still explicitly do and another set that uses things like Evo Psych, IQ testing, and renewed interest in Non-African human origin and arguments that humans aren't a single species (since species isn't an exact term to begin with) to imply the same.
    - ilaksh 6y ago
      First I have heard of that stuff. So that is like, a new type of racism? Kind of next-level racism.
      - cameronfraser 6y ago
        It's basically scientific racism and was used to justify slavery for a while.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

36 points by anw 6y ago

I feel like this is missing some context. E.g. the word “mad” seems complex; how has this been introduced and how do we know that this is what the dog is trying to communicate?

prewett 6y ago
There’s context in the details about the video. Apparently the owner didn’t leave like normal and didn’t give the dog her customary treat on leaving.
- thih9 6y ago
  I was referring to the context related to the learning process and word meaning, the description doesn't explain that. The other comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23767827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23767827 links to an article with more details. This is what I was missing.
  - prewett 6y ago
    This article is much more detailed, thanks!

Udik 6y ago

Hmm, so what the dog wants to communicate is that she wants a food treat. Not exactly unexpected. Reminds me of the famous Gary Larson's comic: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1d/b5/27/1db5279f8a07f1601bf75a92caf9db0a.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1d/b5/27/1db5279f8a07f1601bf7...

SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
> so what the dog wants to communicate is that she wants a food treat. More like "I want my usual food treat, I didn't get it today". Have you ever been late to feed a cat its regular meal? You will hear about it.
majewsky 6y ago
Well, a lot of us only show up for work because we want our money treat. :)

ajani 6y ago

What breed is that dog?

mthoms 6y ago
I'm wondering the same. Its size and shape suggests Border Collie but fur color + length says otherwise. Edit: I just found it. Blue Healer and Catahoula mix.

ajuc 6y ago

So she gets attention when she touches the buttons and gets food when she pushes "eat". I like the idea but I don't think you can conclude it's communication any more than a rat pressing a lever to get his brain stimulated was.

nix23 6y ago
Well it is communication (would be really bad if animals could not communicate, especially animals that hunt in a pack). But yeah that button pushing is the opposite of extending communication.
LyndsySimon 6y ago
I've come across these videos on TikTok many times - Stella has a much larger apparent vocabulary than "I need attention" and "food". From memory, there's another video out there somewhere of her pressing "Stella" "want" "walk". Her owner says "But Stella, we just went for a walk." The dog's response is "Stella" "want" "walk" "again" <delay, looks at owner> "now".

nix23 6y ago

Every Dog does that all the time..it's not special, he bark's or pushes me with the nose, i ask food? If he look's down with his eyes rolling to the left as if there is a virtual bowl i know he want's food, if its not food he goes to the door and pushes the door with the nose, if cuddles he presses his body against my leg. The only difference here is that this poor dog had to learn howto use color buttons because his (former?)-owner (probably) cannot interpret his face or gestures.

Jaruzel 6y ago
> use color buttons Even though dogs are colourblind. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- nix23 6y ago
  But not colorblind as in b/w: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/200810/can-dogs-see-colors https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/200810...
- karimmaassen 6y ago
  They are dichromatic and thus can see color, only different than we do and somewhat limited.
- jmiskovic 6y ago
  Buttons were introduced one by one. Also, when they moved into another apartment, the dog was trying out various buttons to see what phrase is where. Seems like colors don't have a role here.

aetherspawn 6y ago

This dog has been trained to press the Eat button to get food. It has not been trained to form sentences?

Diti 6y ago
It definitely has been trained to form sentences. Haven’t you watched the other videos? There are several instances of the dog refusing food unless its owner acknowledges what it has to say first.

matthewsinclair 6y ago

This dog and its button pushing communication system have come up a few times here on HN. It really does seem incredible. I trained my dog to ring a bell to go in and out of the back door whenever he wants, but this is on a whole other level. How do we know this isn’t just a sophisticated version of the “The Clever Hans Effect”? [1] I’d love to believe this is what it looks like, but my skeptical radar is tingling. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

jmiskovic 6y ago

https://www.hungerforwords.com/post/teaching-my-dog-to-talk-1 https://www.hungerforwords.com/post/teaching-my-dog-to-talk-... This is a fascinating summary of training process and accomplished results. Author is speech therapist for children and applies similar approach instead of rewarding dog for just pressing buttons. Most of comments here are too dismissive of methods and results.

cam_l 6y ago
People do not want to believe animals are sentient and can communicate. They often spend their whole lives ignoring the evidence plainly in front of their own eyes. Hell, they used to do this with other humans.. I would argue this training is not about teaching the dog to communicate, they already do that. This is teaching the dog to communicate in a way that is understandable and verifiable to people other than their owner. My dog learned to cough to get my attention and then point to the thing he wanted, or give me a look he knew I would understand. Barking at me would often just get my frustration, but he was so excited when he found out that we could both make the same noise coughing. After that, he would only bark if he was mad. Communication, but not with repeatable, verifiable 'words'.
- diffrinse 6y ago
  > Hell, they used to do this with other humans.. There are enough that still explicitly do and another set that uses things like Evo Psych, IQ testing, and renewed interest in Non-African human origin and arguments that humans aren't a single species (since species isn't an exact term to begin with) to imply the same.
  - ilaksh 6y ago
    First I have heard of that stuff. So that is like, a new type of racism? Kind of next-level racism.
    - cameronfraser 6y ago
      It's basically scientific racism and was used to justify slavery for a while.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]