6 ms·

Could you elaborate? What is the problem with the linked project? Training a slightly faster, smaller and less accurate version of an existing model?

by jonex 6y ago

chvid 6y ago
https://pjreddie.com/darknet/yolo/ https://pjreddie.com/darknet/yolo/ Is that pjreddie used horses, dogs, and bicycles as training data? Not realising that his technology could also be used on human faces?
- viraptor 6y ago
  > Not realising that his technology could also be used on human faces? I'm not sure how you got to this idea, but it's just not plausible.
  - mlyle 6y ago
    He said: "I stopped doing CV research because I saw the impact my work was having. I loved the work but the military applications and privacy concerns eventually became impossible to ignore." Initial good results on CV doesn't mean that you realize all the ways it'll start to be used and the implications thereof.
    - viraptor 6y ago
      This is about implications - that's not the same as not realising that face is an object.
    - atoav 6y ago
      IMO this is ethically more simple than many like to believe. There are existing power structures (planned ones and emerged ones) in this world and the technology we create can either be used to reinforce them or to question them. Sometimes it is both and things cancel each other out and move on a sideways trajectory – but in the case of CV, it is quite clear who will benefit: those in power, those who need to quantify, control and punish the human element, but don't have the manpower (=legitimacy?) or funds (=priority?) to do so manually. I get that working in CV is interesting and cool stuff, but the collective suffering it might help creating and keeping is something one should seriously think about as well.
      - mardifoufs 6y ago
        Exactly. CV is interesting and can be completely harmless. But the benefits of the technology for the average person are extremely small relatively to the benefits it brings to any potential oppressive power. Mass surveillance tech can be convenient but it's a deal with the devil and I think we sometimes willfully ignore that under the guise of a perceived amorality of progress. "it's just science, it's neutral and you can also use it for good" can sound like a good argument that I usually even agree with. But in this case it's very simple: "Good guys" using of CV gets them things like good auto sorting in Google photos "Bad guys" using CV can reduce the complexity of creating a fully Orwellian, big brother like surveillance state from "absurdly complex to implement and impossible to maintain" to "we can already put in place a solid implementation today and it will get better by the day". Now I used to work in CV and as you said,I get how great and exciting the underlying tech is. But I definitely lean more towards fear than excitement these days. I also realize that it's already everywhere, with heavy research efforts and that you can't ever stop it at this point. But that really goes to show that the Yolo creator was right. Think about it, what does the chinese people gain from CV or face recognitio right now? Maybe cool filters. The chinese government? Unimaginable levels of surveillance and control over it's entire population and it's just getting started.
        CamperBob2 6y ago
        But the benefits of the technology for the average person are extremely small relatively to the benefits it brings to any potential oppressive power. CV is a vitally-necessary component of self-driving car technology. Self-driving cars could save more than 30,000 lives each year in the US alone. Even the very wise cannot see all ends, so why try? Work on what interests you.
        vertex-four 6y ago
        > Even the very wise cannot see all ends, so why try? Work on what interests you. The person I murdered could've gone on to be the next Hitler, so just do whatever interests you. This logic isn't very helpful, is it.
  - chvid 6y ago
    Just trying to provoke an answer with a little humour ... It is obvious to anyone that one of the primary uses of computer vision is to watch other humans at scale. This cannot be surprising to anyone in the field yet now there are ethical concerns mixed with politics through the roof. Maybe we can be more precise about this? The work here is a technical achievement but there are some weird comments here which I think has something to do with the author being Chinese.

Could you elaborate? What is the problem with the linked project? Training a slightly faster, smaller and less accurate version of an existing model?

by jonex 6y ago

Could you elaborate? What is the problem with the linked project? Training a slightly faster, smaller and less accurate version of an existing model?

chvid 6y ago

https://pjreddie.com/darknet/yolo/ https://pjreddie.com/darknet/yolo/ Is that pjreddie used horses, dogs, and bicycles as training data? Not realising that his technology could also be used on human faces?

viraptor 6y ago
> Not realising that his technology could also be used on human faces? I'm not sure how you got to this idea, but it's just not plausible.
- mlyle 6y ago
  He said: "I stopped doing CV research because I saw the impact my work was having. I loved the work but the military applications and privacy concerns eventually became impossible to ignore." Initial good results on CV doesn't mean that you realize all the ways it'll start to be used and the implications thereof.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    This is about implications - that's not the same as not realising that face is an object.
  - atoav 6y ago
    IMO this is ethically more simple than many like to believe. There are existing power structures (planned ones and emerged ones) in this world and the technology we create can either be used to reinforce them or to question them. Sometimes it is both and things cancel each other out and move on a sideways trajectory – but in the case of CV, it is quite clear who will benefit: those in power, those who need to quantify, control and punish the human element, but don't have the manpower (=legitimacy?) or funds (=priority?) to do so manually. I get that working in CV is interesting and cool stuff, but the collective suffering it might help creating and keeping is something one should seriously think about as well.
    - mardifoufs 6y ago
      Exactly. CV is interesting and can be completely harmless. But the benefits of the technology for the average person are extremely small relatively to the benefits it brings to any potential oppressive power. Mass surveillance tech can be convenient but it's a deal with the devil and I think we sometimes willfully ignore that under the guise of a perceived amorality of progress. "it's just science, it's neutral and you can also use it for good" can sound like a good argument that I usually even agree with. But in this case it's very simple: "Good guys" using of CV gets them things like good auto sorting in Google photos "Bad guys" using CV can reduce the complexity of creating a fully Orwellian, big brother like surveillance state from "absurdly complex to implement and impossible to maintain" to "we can already put in place a solid implementation today and it will get better by the day". Now I used to work in CV and as you said,I get how great and exciting the underlying tech is. But I definitely lean more towards fear than excitement these days. I also realize that it's already everywhere, with heavy research efforts and that you can't ever stop it at this point. But that really goes to show that the Yolo creator was right. Think about it, what does the chinese people gain from CV or face recognitio right now? Maybe cool filters. The chinese government? Unimaginable levels of surveillance and control over it's entire population and it's just getting started.
      - CamperBob2 6y ago
        But the benefits of the technology for the average person are extremely small relatively to the benefits it brings to any potential oppressive power. CV is a vitally-necessary component of self-driving car technology. Self-driving cars could save more than 30,000 lives each year in the US alone. Even the very wise cannot see all ends, so why try? Work on what interests you.
        vertex-four 6y ago
        > Even the very wise cannot see all ends, so why try? Work on what interests you. The person I murdered could've gone on to be the next Hitler, so just do whatever interests you. This logic isn't very helpful, is it.
- chvid 6y ago
  Just trying to provoke an answer with a little humour ... It is obvious to anyone that one of the primary uses of computer vision is to watch other humans at scale. This cannot be surprising to anyone in the field yet now there are ethical concerns mixed with politics through the roof. Maybe we can be more precise about this? The work here is a technical achievement but there are some weird comments here which I think has something to do with the author being Chinese.