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my original comment was misinformed

by _fullpint 6y ago

latortuga 6y ago
There's still PPP money left so I'm not sure what your point about the finite sum is.
- digitaltrees 6y ago
  There is money left because people were scared shitless after the SBA threatened criminal prosecution for misleading certifications. The problem is that issued a statement redefined the certification after the fact and made it much more strict and than when they were initially released. All of the sudden a bunch of people thought accepting the PPP funds would land them in Jail. Go to the reddit PPP or small business threads and you’ll see tons of people returning funds and expressing fear. It’s important to note that the SBA issued its announcement after the public outrage of large companies receiving PPP. They have since back tracked and issued a blanket protection from audit for loans under $2M but the damage was done and the $130B hasn’t been touched since.
  - vmception 6y ago
    > They have since back tracked and issued a blanket protection from audit for loans under $2M anything I can read about that?
    - e1g 6y ago
      https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2020/may/sba-safe-harbor-for-ppp-loans-under-2-million.html https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2020/may/sba-safe-...
  - ryanwaggoner 6y ago
    To be fair, this is mostly conjecture on your part. Reddit threads aren't a good way to get a handle on what millions of businesses of all different sizes are doing or why.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      It's a survey selected by an independent factor - it's like a twitter thread, or local cafe gossip. It's not gonna hold up to a strong scrutiny but it's a valuable place to start.
- _fullpint 6y ago
  I stand corrected. Early reports were reporting that many were not able to obtain loans due to the fund being consumed. I’ll delete my comment.
  - digitaltrees 6y ago
    Your comment is not entirely wrong. The reality is the $130B is left because people were too scarred to touch it after the government threatened to criminally prosecute companies after public outrage of large public companies obtaining loans. The public outrage was driven, in part, by the fact that lots of small businesses didn’t get loans before funds ran out the first round. That’s not a sign that there were adequate funds. There are estimates that we actually need a second PPP of the same size ($600B) because lock downs are going to start again.
  - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
    You're not actually wrong, to be fair. They allocated 350bn, it all got spent. Then they allocated more, and some of that second round of money is left.
ryanwaggoner 6y ago
Actually, the PPP was re-funded and was set to expire a week ago with $130 billion unused until they extended it until August.
- digitaltrees 6y ago
  I’ve said this a few times above but I’ll say it here. The funds are unused because the SBA threatened to criminal prosecute borrowers for obtaining loans when “they had alternative capital”. Lots of businesses owners worried that if they had home equity or credit cards available that would be “alternative capital” and they would go to jail. After the SBA guidance application volume dropped off a cliff so the SBA, backpedaling, issued new guidance that they wouldn’t audit loans under $2M, but by then no one wanted to take the risk.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

my original comment was misinformed

latortuga 6y ago

There's still PPP money left so I'm not sure what your point about the finite sum is.

digitaltrees 6y ago
There is money left because people were scared shitless after the SBA threatened criminal prosecution for misleading certifications. The problem is that issued a statement redefined the certification after the fact and made it much more strict and than when they were initially released. All of the sudden a bunch of people thought accepting the PPP funds would land them in Jail. Go to the reddit PPP or small business threads and you’ll see tons of people returning funds and expressing fear. It’s important to note that the SBA issued its announcement after the public outrage of large companies receiving PPP. They have since back tracked and issued a blanket protection from audit for loans under $2M but the damage was done and the $130B hasn’t been touched since.
- vmception 6y ago
  > They have since back tracked and issued a blanket protection from audit for loans under $2M anything I can read about that?
  - e1g 6y ago
    https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2020/may/sba-safe-harbor-for-ppp-loans-under-2-million.html https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/news/2020/may/sba-safe-...
- ryanwaggoner 6y ago
  To be fair, this is mostly conjecture on your part. Reddit threads aren't a good way to get a handle on what millions of businesses of all different sizes are doing or why.
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    It's a survey selected by an independent factor - it's like a twitter thread, or local cafe gossip. It's not gonna hold up to a strong scrutiny but it's a valuable place to start.
_fullpint 6y ago
I stand corrected. Early reports were reporting that many were not able to obtain loans due to the fund being consumed. I’ll delete my comment.
- digitaltrees 6y ago
  Your comment is not entirely wrong. The reality is the $130B is left because people were too scarred to touch it after the government threatened to criminally prosecute companies after public outrage of large public companies obtaining loans. The public outrage was driven, in part, by the fact that lots of small businesses didn’t get loans before funds ran out the first round. That’s not a sign that there were adequate funds. There are estimates that we actually need a second PPP of the same size ($600B) because lock downs are going to start again.
- disgruntledphd2 6y ago
  You're not actually wrong, to be fair. They allocated 350bn, it all got spent. Then they allocated more, and some of that second round of money is left.

ryanwaggoner 6y ago

Actually, the PPP was re-funded and was set to expire a week ago with $130 billion unused until they extended it until August.

digitaltrees 6y ago
I’ve said this a few times above but I’ll say it here. The funds are unused because the SBA threatened to criminal prosecute borrowers for obtaining loans when “they had alternative capital”. Lots of businesses owners worried that if they had home equity or credit cards available that would be “alternative capital” and they would go to jail. After the SBA guidance application volume dropped off a cliff so the SBA, backpedaling, issued new guidance that they wouldn’t audit loans under $2M, but by then no one wanted to take the risk.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]