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The people downvoting you were clearly not watching the streams of protestors chanting and screaming into megaphones. The rhetoric was consistent across the cou

The people downvoting you were clearly not watching the streams of protestors chanting and screaming into megaphones. The rhetoric was consistent across the country. The premise is that the system is white supremacist in nature and must be torn down. From there it is implied that if you do not support tearing down the system, you are a white supremacist. And what do we do to white supremacists? Except the vast majority of people who are iffy about what's going on aren't supremacists of any sort. The word "racist" is quickly losing effect. Politics might not be 1 dimensional, but pendulums are.

joshuamorton 6y ago
> And what do we do to white supremacists? Recent experience would say: not a whole lot. Well, maybe elect them president. You know, real scary stuff for the white supremacists. > Except the vast majority of people who are iffy about what's going on aren't supremacists of any sort. So is your entire complaint that, in truth, you believe in the goals that BLM has, you just are really miffed by their characterization of you as a "white supremacist", which carries too negative a connotation, and because of that you just can't bring yourself to support them? I mean it's really easy to acknowledge that one benefits from white supremacy. I do, all the time. That doesn't inherently make me a bad person, it makes me a (white) person who lives in a society. That I happen to benefit from the same structures that put other people down, on its own, doesn't impact my moral character. What I do with that knowledge though, now that does.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  What's the point of obsessing about who "benefits" from such a grossly problematic and clearly suboptimal system? Does the average white person really benefit from mass incarceration of urban minorities? One thing we can be sure of - namely that when so many people are criminalized and incarcerated, we're all being required to pay higher taxes towards the system itself.
  - fzeroracer 6y ago
    > Does the average white person really benefit from mass incarceration of urban minorities Have you considered why Amy Cooper called the police on a black man for making the heinous crime of asking her to leash her dog? Why there are white people calling the police on black people that did nothing wrong?
    - zozbot234 6y ago
      > Have you considered why Amy Cooper called the police on a black man for making the heinous crime of asking her to leash her dog? It seems reasonable to say that Amy Cooper was being bigoted, but I'm not sure how that relates to the OP's saying that everyone who happens to self-identify as white should be doing penance for somehow "benefiting" from a grossly unfair system.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        Why are you reframing what I believe: "making an effort to listen to and accept the concerns of others as legitimate" as penance? Is it penance to listen to black Americans? I certainly don't think so. If anything, it's educational.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    Because mass incarceration of urban minorities is only one problem. And there are many ways that the average white person benefits from mass incarceration: prison labor, electoral over representation, not to mention that I strive to have empathy for others.
- mtgp1000 6y ago
  How about we start with the blatantly racist assumption that I'm white? And the fact that such behavior is being normalized by BLM and allies, and I'm being held hostage for not going along with a movement which I believe is about to set race relations back by a hundred years? This isn't about me. This is about the country running off a cliff. And it's the fact that I'm not even allowed to question your presumptions about how the system benefits whites at the expense of blacks - which is statistically unsupported, but that's beside my point. Again, it's the fact that I risk being unpersoned for even bringing it up.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    > How about we start with the blatantly racist assumption that I'm white? I don't see this assumption anywhere. People of any race can be white supremacists and can benefit from white supremacy (consider for example Candace Owens). As for the rest of your comment, I can't really address your fears. You appear to be living in a reality so different from mine, that unless you provide more explanation of how the country is running off a cliff or how black lives matter will reinstitute segregation or why you think you'll being unpersoned for... actually I can't tell what your beliefs are other than abject terror, there's not much more I can say.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      Reinstituting segregation isn't some kind of secret hidden plan; many people within the Black Lives Matter movement are openly in favor of it and have achieved meaningful successes towards the goal. A dozen or so universities offer segregated dorms (albeit on an opt-in basis) today. And the California legislature just recently passed a bill to re-legalize racial discrimination.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        > many people within the Black Lives Matter movement are openly in favor of it You mean like in general, or in very specific spaces? Because while there are black separatist groups that exist, they're fringe-of-fringe. > And the California legislature just recently passed a bill to re-legalize racial discrimination. I think we'll agree to disagree that legalizing affirmative action policies is a setback in racial equality.

joshuamorton 6y ago

> And what do we do to white supremacists? Recent experience would say: not a whole lot. Well, maybe elect them president. You know, real scary stuff for the white supremacists. > Except the vast majority of people who are iffy about what's going on aren't supremacists of any sort. So is your entire complaint that, in truth, you believe in the goals that BLM has, you just are really miffed by their characterization of you as a "white supremacist", which carries too negative a connotation, and because of that you just can't bring yourself to support them? I mean it's really easy to acknowledge that one benefits from white supremacy. I do, all the time. That doesn't inherently make me a bad person, it makes me a (white) person who lives in a society. That I happen to benefit from the same structures that put other people down, on its own, doesn't impact my moral character. What I do with that knowledge though, now that does.

zozbot234 6y ago
What's the point of obsessing about who "benefits" from such a grossly problematic and clearly suboptimal system? Does the average white person really benefit from mass incarceration of urban minorities? One thing we can be sure of - namely that when so many people are criminalized and incarcerated, we're all being required to pay higher taxes towards the system itself.
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  > Does the average white person really benefit from mass incarceration of urban minorities Have you considered why Amy Cooper called the police on a black man for making the heinous crime of asking her to leash her dog? Why there are white people calling the police on black people that did nothing wrong?
  - zozbot234 6y ago
    > Have you considered why Amy Cooper called the police on a black man for making the heinous crime of asking her to leash her dog? It seems reasonable to say that Amy Cooper was being bigoted, but I'm not sure how that relates to the OP's saying that everyone who happens to self-identify as white should be doing penance for somehow "benefiting" from a grossly unfair system.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      Why are you reframing what I believe: "making an effort to listen to and accept the concerns of others as legitimate" as penance? Is it penance to listen to black Americans? I certainly don't think so. If anything, it's educational.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  Because mass incarceration of urban minorities is only one problem. And there are many ways that the average white person benefits from mass incarceration: prison labor, electoral over representation, not to mention that I strive to have empathy for others.
mtgp1000 6y ago
How about we start with the blatantly racist assumption that I'm white? And the fact that such behavior is being normalized by BLM and allies, and I'm being held hostage for not going along with a movement which I believe is about to set race relations back by a hundred years? This isn't about me. This is about the country running off a cliff. And it's the fact that I'm not even allowed to question your presumptions about how the system benefits whites at the expense of blacks - which is statistically unsupported, but that's beside my point. Again, it's the fact that I risk being unpersoned for even bringing it up.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  > How about we start with the blatantly racist assumption that I'm white? I don't see this assumption anywhere. People of any race can be white supremacists and can benefit from white supremacy (consider for example Candace Owens). As for the rest of your comment, I can't really address your fears. You appear to be living in a reality so different from mine, that unless you provide more explanation of how the country is running off a cliff or how black lives matter will reinstitute segregation or why you think you'll being unpersoned for... actually I can't tell what your beliefs are other than abject terror, there's not much more I can say.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Reinstituting segregation isn't some kind of secret hidden plan; many people within the Black Lives Matter movement are openly in favor of it and have achieved meaningful successes towards the goal. A dozen or so universities offer segregated dorms (albeit on an opt-in basis) today. And the California legislature just recently passed a bill to re-legalize racial discrimination.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      > many people within the Black Lives Matter movement are openly in favor of it You mean like in general, or in very specific spaces? Because while there are black separatist groups that exist, they're fringe-of-fringe. > And the California legislature just recently passed a bill to re-legalize racial discrimination. I think we'll agree to disagree that legalizing affirmative action policies is a setback in racial equality.