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>While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture The "radical right" enclaves on the intern

>While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture The "radical right" enclaves on the internet are literally the only places where you won't be banned for not falling in line. We need to have this discussion in more than one dimension. Left/right and authoritarian/anarchist are orthogonal metrics.

CJefferson 6y ago
I'm not sure which "radical right" enclaves you are talking about. Donald trump and conservative groups on reddit for example are some of the most ban-heavy groups around. Where are you thinking about?
- mtgp1000 6y ago
  TD is not far right. 4chan is "far right". 8chan is "far right". But there are regular far left threads on chans advocating for all kinds of radicalism (including violence) as well as making legitimate talking points - no one gets banned, even though the sites primarily lean right. The only "side" interested in actual free speech currently is the "far right", unlike left leaning forums and media outlets which explicitly censor one particular point of view, regardless of whether it is backed by legitimate science which should be open to discussion. Censorship has undeniably become a leftist problem, if you insist on reducing the high dimensional space of political leanings to a single myopic dimension. Unbelievable that in 2020 people are shamed for going to the last places on the internet where discourse is unrestricted.
  - DavidVoid 6y ago
    You can't in good faith make the claim that the far right is interested in actual free speech. They'd rather see people get dropped from helicopters than let those they deem to be "degenerates" voice their political opinions. TD, /r/conservative, /r/uncensorednews [1], and all the shitholes on voat have one thing in common, they all ban pretty much anyone who goes against their narratives. And TD was far right, not as far right as /r/uncensorednews was, but still pretty far right. But perhaps your Overton window is much further to the right than mine (and northern Europe's) is. [1] The subreddit was banned about two years ago but had 100k+ subs and featured pretty frequent racism, anti-semitism, transphobia, and neo-nazi imagery (the head mod is a self-described neo-nazi after all).
santoshalper 6y ago
Not my experience. Back when it was a going concern, The_Donald moderators were incredibly quick to ban anyone who was not a 100% full-throated supporter of Trump. I know because I was banned repeatedly for trying to engage in nuanced, good faith discussions. r/Conservative is extremely quick on the ban trigger as well. I find that a desire for safe-spaces and monoculture spans both sides of the aisle and seems to be a broader trend in our culture today. Perhaps this desire always existed and the Internet's ability to cater to the long tail has simply enabled it.
- mtgp1000 6y ago
  There are discussion websites other than reddit... Also calling the_donald "far right" really indicates the bias of discourse online. Which is part of the problem - people are deliberately loose with language and netizens (at least on reddit) truly believe that Nazis have taken over the Republican party...
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    The top post on their new site right now says that "Donald Trump is our last and only hope" and encourages readers to "VOTE LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT. IT DOES." I think this is an extreme viewpoint by any reasonable standard; the vast majority of people don't expect they're going to die if the wrong person wins an election.
    - mtgp1000 6y ago
      Have you been paying attention to what BLM has been saying? What do you expect these people to feel when they are being accused openly of white supremacy and Nazism, simply for not going along with leftist politics? That's a unilateral carte blanche to be violent. Punching Nazis is great but it's a serious problem when you are far too loose with labels, as we've been watching. Silence is violence, right? I assure you that the millions of non-white immigrants who [reluctantly] lean towards Trump are not white supremacists - but all it takes is a single accusation to literally ruin a life. When that is the status quo, it isn't surprising to hear people say that they are voting right like "their life depends on it" because it increasingly seems to. Regardless of the justification, you cannot deny that BLM are presently the aggressors, openly rallying to explicitly subvert US institutions. Not everyone has to agree with the culmination of the long march through the institutions.
toiletfuneral 6y ago
I'm sorry, are you telling me that right wingers are more open to opposing ideas? That just does not seem to reflect literally any aspect of growing up & still having most of my family / friends in a highly conservative community. Like at all. I'm totally shocked you believe this.

CJefferson 6y ago

I'm not sure which "radical right" enclaves you are talking about. Donald trump and conservative groups on reddit for example are some of the most ban-heavy groups around. Where are you thinking about?

mtgp1000 6y ago
TD is not far right. 4chan is "far right". 8chan is "far right". But there are regular far left threads on chans advocating for all kinds of radicalism (including violence) as well as making legitimate talking points - no one gets banned, even though the sites primarily lean right. The only "side" interested in actual free speech currently is the "far right", unlike left leaning forums and media outlets which explicitly censor one particular point of view, regardless of whether it is backed by legitimate science which should be open to discussion. Censorship has undeniably become a leftist problem, if you insist on reducing the high dimensional space of political leanings to a single myopic dimension. Unbelievable that in 2020 people are shamed for going to the last places on the internet where discourse is unrestricted.
- DavidVoid 6y ago
  You can't in good faith make the claim that the far right is interested in actual free speech. They'd rather see people get dropped from helicopters than let those they deem to be "degenerates" voice their political opinions. TD, /r/conservative, /r/uncensorednews [1], and all the shitholes on voat have one thing in common, they all ban pretty much anyone who goes against their narratives. And TD was far right, not as far right as /r/uncensorednews was, but still pretty far right. But perhaps your Overton window is much further to the right than mine (and northern Europe's) is. [1] The subreddit was banned about two years ago but had 100k+ subs and featured pretty frequent racism, anti-semitism, transphobia, and neo-nazi imagery (the head mod is a self-described neo-nazi after all).

santoshalper 6y ago

Not my experience. Back when it was a going concern, The_Donald moderators were incredibly quick to ban anyone who was not a 100% full-throated supporter of Trump. I know because I was banned repeatedly for trying to engage in nuanced, good faith discussions. r/Conservative is extremely quick on the ban trigger as well. I find that a desire for safe-spaces and monoculture spans both sides of the aisle and seems to be a broader trend in our culture today. Perhaps this desire always existed and the Internet's ability to cater to the long tail has simply enabled it.

mtgp1000 6y ago
There are discussion websites other than reddit... Also calling the_donald "far right" really indicates the bias of discourse online. Which is part of the problem - people are deliberately loose with language and netizens (at least on reddit) truly believe that Nazis have taken over the Republican party...
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  The top post on their new site right now says that "Donald Trump is our last and only hope" and encourages readers to "VOTE LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT. IT DOES." I think this is an extreme viewpoint by any reasonable standard; the vast majority of people don't expect they're going to die if the wrong person wins an election.
  - mtgp1000 6y ago
    Have you been paying attention to what BLM has been saying? What do you expect these people to feel when they are being accused openly of white supremacy and Nazism, simply for not going along with leftist politics? That's a unilateral carte blanche to be violent. Punching Nazis is great but it's a serious problem when you are far too loose with labels, as we've been watching. Silence is violence, right? I assure you that the millions of non-white immigrants who [reluctantly] lean towards Trump are not white supremacists - but all it takes is a single accusation to literally ruin a life. When that is the status quo, it isn't surprising to hear people say that they are voting right like "their life depends on it" because it increasingly seems to. Regardless of the justification, you cannot deny that BLM are presently the aggressors, openly rallying to explicitly subvert US institutions. Not everyone has to agree with the culmination of the long march through the institutions.

toiletfuneral 6y ago

I'm sorry, are you telling me that right wingers are more open to opposing ideas? That just does not seem to reflect literally any aspect of growing up & still having most of my family / friends in a highly conservative community. Like at all. I'm totally shocked you believe this.