4 ms·

> I want to be with people that are sharing links to things they’ve read, people who are trying out new technologies and languages, people who have weekend proj

by bb123 6y ago

> I want to be with people that are sharing links to things they’ve read, people who are trying out new technologies and languages, people who have weekend projects, or who are contributing bug fixes back to open source projects. I hate this culture in software engineering. There are many excellent engineers out there who work to live, rather than live to work. Why do we have this expectation that programmers want to spend every waking second coding something? I'd hire someone who appears to have balance in their life with other interests and hobbies besides computers (all other things being equal).

abalaji 6y ago
It’s more fun to work with people who enjoy work rather than people who work to enjoy. At least that’s my 2 cents
- bb123 6y ago
  I enjoy my work, but it is just that - work. I give my work 100% in good humour when I am working, but I think the expectation that I'm going to go home and do more of the same on my own time is unfair and unhealthy. No other profession expects this.
  - reallydontask 6y ago
    > No other profession expects this. I don't think this is the case (anecdotal evidence from friends and family in varied professions) I think the problem is that there seems to be an expectation of knowledge of the exact technologies. I have to say that lately I have seen a lot more: X or equivalent but this might be related to devops engineer job adverts where maybe they've realised that the tools are similar enough that you can get up to speed quickly enough between them ...
- vsareto 6y ago
  I don't know why people would enjoy work with all of the process stuff we impose on development.
  - bpyne 6y ago
    Reminds me of a snarky comment I read, "If you love doing something, keep it as a hobby or you'll begin to hate it."
throwaway98797 6y ago
You wouldn’t want to work at this company anyways. The system works. Different strokes for different folks.
Clubber 6y ago
It's fairly evident to me that many tech hiring managers today, and for the last 20 years really, are just stabbing in the dark and calling it science.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  Absolutely. It's just luck and survivor-ship bias. The best way to recruit is to use a network, period. Having multiple people vouch for someone is far more valuable than seeing if he has a github. And even then - it might be a bad fit. Companies never look internally when it comes to recruiting either. They blame other things, like developer "passion" and not fitting a "work hard play hard culture."
flareback 6y ago
I came here to say this. He also states > if someone was not on LinkedIn or didn’t have a public Git account, I found myself thinking ‘well, what exactly do they do?’ How about spending time with their family, Hanging out with friends. Relaxing and refreshing themselves so they are fresh and ready to go in the morning.
- viraptor 6y ago
  Other options: - working for a company which doesn't allow external contributions - working on stuff which doesn't make sense on GitHub (does anyone care about a servo driver for a specific component used only on this board?) - working for orgs where they're not allowed to say much beyond "I'm working for the government" - not being interested in opensource (gasp!) - word of mouth, specific industry consulting
- ThePadawan 6y ago
  I agree with the sentiment, but I feel you're misrepresenting the text you quote: Creating a LinkedIn account takes what, 30 minutes? You don't need to be one of those high achieving "Can you endorse me for X/Y/Z on LinkedIn" morons to "be on LinkedIn". Similarly, your parent didn't for a Github account with weekly contributions to OSS projects. Let's be honest, I've seen so many accounts that are just "I was bored during a long weekend and threw together this 200 line utility script". And that's great! This reduction of people into black and white comes up again and again in this discussion, and I cannot understand it to this day.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
raxxorrax 6y ago
Agreed. I will not show you my repository accounts. Never ever will they get attached to my real persona. They will be taken down on the day they become public. Pay me 300,000$ a month and we could talk about it without commitments from my side. Otherwise I don't want to justify myself towards my employer if I work on private stuff or not. Especially not with contracts in tech, which are already borderline abusive. That said, I haven't touched my public repositories for quite a while. Why? I have a fucking job! Aside from that I also host gitea on my domain that you will also not get to know. Maybe I would create another one for public display, but that is very unlikely. I get that some people are forward with this stuff and in general social media presence, but I am certainly not. edit: Of course there is also bad code in my repos, but that is completely besides the point.
- bpyne 6y ago
  There is bad code in everyone's repo. Several of my repos are from courses in grad school. From a software engineering standpoint, they are horrendous. But, they solved the problem the professor assigned and taught me what the professor intended by the assignment. It's probably more helpful, in evaluating a developer, to see a progression of thought rather than shiny, functioning code.
  - willcipriano 6y ago
    In my experience personal projects get reviewed so infrequently that I'm not all that worried about someone digging down and evaluating the code quality of a 4+ year old repo.
lmilcin 6y ago
Let's be honest. The guy reviewed 22 CVs and went to write a blog post about it. I have interviewed hundreds of candidates, not just red their CVs (typically around 1 candidate a week for the past 15 years, currently 3 candidates a week on average). What I have learned is to be very cautious when looking through CVs lest you select for candidates who can make good looking CVs. I have met many nice and competent people who don't write blog post and who can't make nice CV. They don't make projects for show because they have enough work at... work and they don't do ten other projects because they want to focus where it really matters for them. They might have other non-technical hobbies like riding a bike or picking up girls at the bar. They may not feel the need to impose their interests and thoughts on everybody else or they might think their thoughts and experiences are not at all valuable to general public. A person who writes blog posts, for-show github repos, who creates public image, is just one of many types of developers. If you select for this you are missing out on many excellent people.
- mesaframe 6y ago
  But issue is the people you are talking about rarely gets noticed.
  - lmilcin 6y ago
    They do, just not on the front page of HN.
  - mstade 6y ago
    I don't know about that, most of the people I've ever worked with (and hired or helped hire) seems to fall in to the category of not writing blogs, etc. A silent majority, if you will. I may well be wrong of course, and I don't doubt that being better at marketing gets you noticed more easily but that's not the same as everyone else rarely getting noticed.
    - lmilcin 6y ago
      Exactly. Not every act of noticing must be noticed by general public, if that makes sense. You might be doing a good job and get promoted and be part of 99.9% of population who will never make headlines.
mc32 6y ago
And not to be a party pooper but that narrative and image could also steer choices away from women, partnered men, individuals with families who practice work life balance as well as disadvantaged candidates. But this trope lives on with vigor in HR...

by bb123 6y ago

abalaji 6y ago

It’s more fun to work with people who enjoy work rather than people who work to enjoy. At least that’s my 2 cents

bb123 6y ago
I enjoy my work, but it is just that - work. I give my work 100% in good humour when I am working, but I think the expectation that I'm going to go home and do more of the same on my own time is unfair and unhealthy. No other profession expects this.
- reallydontask 6y ago
  > No other profession expects this. I don't think this is the case (anecdotal evidence from friends and family in varied professions) I think the problem is that there seems to be an expectation of knowledge of the exact technologies. I have to say that lately I have seen a lot more: X or equivalent but this might be related to devops engineer job adverts where maybe they've realised that the tools are similar enough that you can get up to speed quickly enough between them ...
vsareto 6y ago
I don't know why people would enjoy work with all of the process stuff we impose on development.
- bpyne 6y ago
  Reminds me of a snarky comment I read, "If you love doing something, keep it as a hobby or you'll begin to hate it."

throwaway98797 6y ago

You wouldn’t want to work at this company anyways. The system works. Different strokes for different folks.

Clubber 6y ago

It's fairly evident to me that many tech hiring managers today, and for the last 20 years really, are just stabbing in the dark and calling it science.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
Absolutely. It's just luck and survivor-ship bias. The best way to recruit is to use a network, period. Having multiple people vouch for someone is far more valuable than seeing if he has a github. And even then - it might be a bad fit. Companies never look internally when it comes to recruiting either. They blame other things, like developer "passion" and not fitting a "work hard play hard culture."

flareback 6y ago

I came here to say this. He also states > if someone was not on LinkedIn or didn’t have a public Git account, I found myself thinking ‘well, what exactly do they do?’ How about spending time with their family, Hanging out with friends. Relaxing and refreshing themselves so they are fresh and ready to go in the morning.

viraptor 6y ago
Other options: - working for a company which doesn't allow external contributions - working on stuff which doesn't make sense on GitHub (does anyone care about a servo driver for a specific component used only on this board?) - working for orgs where they're not allowed to say much beyond "I'm working for the government" - not being interested in opensource (gasp!) - word of mouth, specific industry consulting
ThePadawan 6y ago
I agree with the sentiment, but I feel you're misrepresenting the text you quote: Creating a LinkedIn account takes what, 30 minutes? You don't need to be one of those high achieving "Can you endorse me for X/Y/Z on LinkedIn" morons to "be on LinkedIn". Similarly, your parent didn't for a Github account with weekly contributions to OSS projects. Let's be honest, I've seen so many accounts that are just "I was bored during a long weekend and threw together this 200 line utility script". And that's great! This reduction of people into black and white comes up again and again in this discussion, and I cannot understand it to this day.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

raxxorrax 6y ago

Agreed. I will not show you my repository accounts. Never ever will they get attached to my real persona. They will be taken down on the day they become public. Pay me 300,000$ a month and we could talk about it without commitments from my side. Otherwise I don't want to justify myself towards my employer if I work on private stuff or not. Especially not with contracts in tech, which are already borderline abusive. That said, I haven't touched my public repositories for quite a while. Why? I have a fucking job! Aside from that I also host gitea on my domain that you will also not get to know. Maybe I would create another one for public display, but that is very unlikely. I get that some people are forward with this stuff and in general social media presence, but I am certainly not. edit: Of course there is also bad code in my repos, but that is completely besides the point.

bpyne 6y ago
There is bad code in everyone's repo. Several of my repos are from courses in grad school. From a software engineering standpoint, they are horrendous. But, they solved the problem the professor assigned and taught me what the professor intended by the assignment. It's probably more helpful, in evaluating a developer, to see a progression of thought rather than shiny, functioning code.
- willcipriano 6y ago
  In my experience personal projects get reviewed so infrequently that I'm not all that worried about someone digging down and evaluating the code quality of a 4+ year old repo.

lmilcin 6y ago

Let's be honest. The guy reviewed 22 CVs and went to write a blog post about it. I have interviewed hundreds of candidates, not just red their CVs (typically around 1 candidate a week for the past 15 years, currently 3 candidates a week on average). What I have learned is to be very cautious when looking through CVs lest you select for candidates who can make good looking CVs. I have met many nice and competent people who don't write blog post and who can't make nice CV. They don't make projects for show because they have enough work at... work and they don't do ten other projects because they want to focus where it really matters for them. They might have other non-technical hobbies like riding a bike or picking up girls at the bar. They may not feel the need to impose their interests and thoughts on everybody else or they might think their thoughts and experiences are not at all valuable to general public. A person who writes blog posts, for-show github repos, who creates public image, is just one of many types of developers. If you select for this you are missing out on many excellent people.

mesaframe 6y ago
But issue is the people you are talking about rarely gets noticed.
- lmilcin 6y ago
  They do, just not on the front page of HN.
- mstade 6y ago
  I don't know about that, most of the people I've ever worked with (and hired or helped hire) seems to fall in to the category of not writing blogs, etc. A silent majority, if you will. I may well be wrong of course, and I don't doubt that being better at marketing gets you noticed more easily but that's not the same as everyone else rarely getting noticed.
  - lmilcin 6y ago
    Exactly. Not every act of noticing must be noticed by general public, if that makes sense. You might be doing a good job and get promoted and be part of 99.9% of population who will never make headlines.

mc32 6y ago

And not to be a party pooper but that narrative and image could also steer choices away from women, partnered men, individuals with families who practice work life balance as well as disadvantaged candidates. But this trope lives on with vigor in HR...