5 ms·

I think the issue has nothing to do with it being Chinese, but with the extent at which it swallows up data on Americans. Why even bother sending spies to anoth

by fiblye 6y ago

I think the issue has nothing to do with it being Chinese, but with the extent at which it swallows up data on Americans. Why even bother sending spies to another country and making plans for infiltration when you can get them to download a full spying suite under the guise of social media? The problem is this opens a whole new can of worms regarding Facebook and other American social media. Other countries are equally justified in banning them for the same reason.

Cookingboy 6y ago
>I think the issue has nothing to do with it being Chinese, but with the extent at which it swallows up data on Americans But it's A-ok when NSA powered/hijacked/collaborated U.S. social media companies do the same to the rest of the world? I'm pretty sure PRISM didn't just get dismantled after Snowden. >Why even bother sending spies to another country and making plans for infiltration when you can get them to download a full spying suite under the guise of social media? Because espionage involves more than just digging up information that is voluntarily put out on social media? I mean if you upload the blueprint of a stealth fighter onto TikTok/Dropbox/Instagram/whatever the fault is yours don't you think?
- fiblye 6y ago
  In the very next paragraph I mentioned that other countries have the right to respond to America the same way. Espionage isn't just uploading blueprints. That's 1950s comic book stuff. It's copying users' clipboards, recording conversations, and tracking locations and gathering data from those around you.
- actuator 6y ago
  This is just classic whataboutism. You should be careful of all of these companies as well. But you can't really equate the rule of law in both the countries in good faith. I really doubt criticism of Covid-19 handling lands you in jail in US. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/world/asia/china-detains-xu-zhangrun-critic.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/worl...
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    >But you can't really equate the rule of law in both the countries in good faith Yes you can't because Americans aren't subject to Chinese law. What do you think is going to happen, the CCP send their best assassin over to get you because they didn't like your cat video? You've got more to fear from the FBI trying to get into your iphone if they suspect you of a crime than a foreign government that doesn't have any jurisdiction over you. this is just plain old populism and sinophobia and has nothing to do with privacy
    - cthalupa 6y ago
      >Yes you can't because Americans aren't subject to Chinese law. China certainly disagrees with you. Just look at the new Hong Kong NSL - it claims jurisdiction over every person on earth for offenses defined to vaguely as to be meaningless. This obviously has horrific effects for the people in Hong Kong - protesters are already being threatened as being national security threats for having a protest where they did nothing but stand still and hold up white paper - but also chilling effects for anyone who might ever visit Hong Kong, the PRC, or any country friendly with or afraid of the PRC, especially if they have an extradition treaty. The law had been used to ban pro-democracy books and arrest democracy activists in Hong Kong within a week of its passing. Piss off the PRC enough and go on a trip to Thailand, and you might end up in a Chinese prison for the rest of your life, because article 38 covers any action by any person, no matter where they are and wether or not it was legal where they were. It was illegal in Hong Kong, so you're fair game if you're ever within their legal net. While the FBI has more power over me day to day, I am not afraid of them arresting me for being a proponent of free speech or democracy. If I was someone who traveled more frequently in those previously mentioned countries, I certainly would be.
      - Barrin92 6y ago
        Hong Kong is part of China. Obviously going to China when you're a well known dissident is playing with fire. But I don't see what that has to do with banning apps from the app store for regular US users? This isn't actually news. Their are currently European and American citizens under arrest in Turkey, or Saudi Arabia say, has the US taken any Turkish apps from the app store? Or for that matter has the US currently banned any Russian apps, probably the most notorious country when it comes to cyber-attacks on the US and arresting if not even killing dissidents? It's a total non-sequitur, it's got nothing to do with security. It's an appeal to the increasingly rabid American population to deflect from covid or the general state of the country. It's the new 9/11. Just start accusing China of random things and hope everything else goes away.
core-questions 6y ago
> Other countries are equally justified in banning them for the same reason. Sure, but what happens when all of our social connections to people in other countries are basically cut, or minimized to the point where they're not really fully fledged friendships anymore, somehow more distant than ever? I think what happens, ultimately, is that war becomes more possible, because otherizing and dehumanizing people becomes much easier.
- fiblye 6y ago
  Governments don't care. We've still had war and conflict even with the internet. Networks like Facebook have made it even easier to otherize and dehumanize people in the same country. I mean, ISIS actively used (and probably still uses) social networks to radicalize and recruit people. Algorithms feed you content that politically aligns with you and they drive you into more exciting and farfetched stuff to get clicks and attention. Social networks are not going to stop a global conflict.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Social media connections with China are already as cut as they can be. (Remember that Tiktok itself is not allowed in China - Chinese users have to use a separate instance of the product named Douyin.)
tanilama 6y ago
Social media is an incredibly risky business at the moment. Even Facebook itself isn't safe.

by fiblye 6y ago

Cookingboy 6y ago

>I think the issue has nothing to do with it being Chinese, but with the extent at which it swallows up data on Americans But it's A-ok when NSA powered/hijacked/collaborated U.S. social media companies do the same to the rest of the world? I'm pretty sure PRISM didn't just get dismantled after Snowden. >Why even bother sending spies to another country and making plans for infiltration when you can get them to download a full spying suite under the guise of social media? Because espionage involves more than just digging up information that is voluntarily put out on social media? I mean if you upload the blueprint of a stealth fighter onto TikTok/Dropbox/Instagram/whatever the fault is yours don't you think?

fiblye 6y ago
In the very next paragraph I mentioned that other countries have the right to respond to America the same way. Espionage isn't just uploading blueprints. That's 1950s comic book stuff. It's copying users' clipboards, recording conversations, and tracking locations and gathering data from those around you.
actuator 6y ago
This is just classic whataboutism. You should be careful of all of these companies as well. But you can't really equate the rule of law in both the countries in good faith. I really doubt criticism of Covid-19 handling lands you in jail in US. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/world/asia/china-detains-xu-zhangrun-critic.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/worl...
- Barrin92 6y ago
  >But you can't really equate the rule of law in both the countries in good faith Yes you can't because Americans aren't subject to Chinese law. What do you think is going to happen, the CCP send their best assassin over to get you because they didn't like your cat video? You've got more to fear from the FBI trying to get into your iphone if they suspect you of a crime than a foreign government that doesn't have any jurisdiction over you. this is just plain old populism and sinophobia and has nothing to do with privacy
  - cthalupa 6y ago
    >Yes you can't because Americans aren't subject to Chinese law. China certainly disagrees with you. Just look at the new Hong Kong NSL - it claims jurisdiction over every person on earth for offenses defined to vaguely as to be meaningless. This obviously has horrific effects for the people in Hong Kong - protesters are already being threatened as being national security threats for having a protest where they did nothing but stand still and hold up white paper - but also chilling effects for anyone who might ever visit Hong Kong, the PRC, or any country friendly with or afraid of the PRC, especially if they have an extradition treaty. The law had been used to ban pro-democracy books and arrest democracy activists in Hong Kong within a week of its passing. Piss off the PRC enough and go on a trip to Thailand, and you might end up in a Chinese prison for the rest of your life, because article 38 covers any action by any person, no matter where they are and wether or not it was legal where they were. It was illegal in Hong Kong, so you're fair game if you're ever within their legal net. While the FBI has more power over me day to day, I am not afraid of them arresting me for being a proponent of free speech or democracy. If I was someone who traveled more frequently in those previously mentioned countries, I certainly would be.
    - Barrin92 6y ago
      Hong Kong is part of China. Obviously going to China when you're a well known dissident is playing with fire. But I don't see what that has to do with banning apps from the app store for regular US users? This isn't actually news. Their are currently European and American citizens under arrest in Turkey, or Saudi Arabia say, has the US taken any Turkish apps from the app store? Or for that matter has the US currently banned any Russian apps, probably the most notorious country when it comes to cyber-attacks on the US and arresting if not even killing dissidents? It's a total non-sequitur, it's got nothing to do with security. It's an appeal to the increasingly rabid American population to deflect from covid or the general state of the country. It's the new 9/11. Just start accusing China of random things and hope everything else goes away.

core-questions 6y ago

> Other countries are equally justified in banning them for the same reason. Sure, but what happens when all of our social connections to people in other countries are basically cut, or minimized to the point where they're not really fully fledged friendships anymore, somehow more distant than ever? I think what happens, ultimately, is that war becomes more possible, because otherizing and dehumanizing people becomes much easier.

fiblye 6y ago
Governments don't care. We've still had war and conflict even with the internet. Networks like Facebook have made it even easier to otherize and dehumanize people in the same country. I mean, ISIS actively used (and probably still uses) social networks to radicalize and recruit people. Algorithms feed you content that politically aligns with you and they drive you into more exciting and farfetched stuff to get clicks and attention. Social networks are not going to stop a global conflict.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Social media connections with China are already as cut as they can be. (Remember that Tiktok itself is not allowed in China - Chinese users have to use a separate instance of the product named Douyin.)

tanilama 6y ago

Social media is an incredibly risky business at the moment. Even Facebook itself isn't safe.