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What's going on here is Ubiquiti want to sell you a hardware+software combination (Unifi-Protect) rather than provide a free software NVR (Unifi-Video) which co

by dotBen 6y ago

What's going on here is Ubiquiti want to sell you a hardware+software combination (Unifi-Protect) rather than provide a free software NVR (Unifi-Video) which could run via a container on 3rd party hardware/cloud/etc. This is part of a trend towards a higher TCO for their products. However as a long-time owner of Ubiquiti network and security camera equipment I have to say I welcome the move as it has resulted in higher quality products. On the security camera front, Unifi-Protect still represents the best one-time Cap-Ex rather option rather than Op-Ex options such as Ring and Google Nest who charge monthly for camera cloud storage, etc.

njovin 6y ago
I recently started getting into home automation and was appalled to learn that Nest no longer provides an API to access my own devices. What’s the point of a “smart” system if you’re completely limited to what functionality a single vendor wants to allow? I got rid of my Nest and got an Ecobee. Their APIs are confusing IMO and missing some basic functionality but it’s workable for my needs.
- ac29 6y ago
  Nest is transitioning to a different API, not getting rid of it completely. Individuals can sign up for access here: https://developers.google.com/nest/device-access https://developers.google.com/nest/device-access
  - russell_h 6y ago
    According to that page the API for individuals won’t exist until late 2020.
  - toast0 6y ago
    Nest (Google) gotten rid of their API and are promissing to have a new API real soon now. It may not have the full features of the old API, the messaging hasn't been consistent, but they had suggested that APIs could be read only, which is limiting. Meanwhile, they've added agressive captchas to the website, and are switching our their undocumented json api for an undocumented protobuf api. Unfortunately, they seem to be the only smart thermostat that supports separate aux heat and emergency heat wires. I don't know for sure if my HVAC system actually treats those differently, but it's wired for it, and the previous system had it, so I'd want to retain that. (But please correct me if there's a better choice... I'm tired of not being able to use the hardware I bought to do what I want it to do; single stage heat pump, with 7 wires: common (c), power (r), heat pump (o), fan (g), heat/cool (y), aux heat (w2), and emergency heat (*). Bonus points if the replacement has a big mounting bracket, cause the nest one just barely covers missed paint ;)
    - Terretta 6y ago
      In my installations, which I swapped from Nest to Ecobee, the Ecobee 3 supports aux heat: https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010176991-ecobee3-Wiring-Diagrams https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010176991-ec... https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000414828-How-to-minimize-the-use-of-auxiliary-heat-with-a-heat-pump-on-your-ecobee-thermostat https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000414828-Ho... Note that with basic Ecobee systems, you may have to purchase another adapter to connect to some systems. The Ecobee 3 (not Lite) I didn’t have to. https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028428931-What-are-the-differences-between-ecobee-SmartThermostat-with-voice-control-ecobee4-ecobee3-lite-and-ecobee3- https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028428931-Wh... I have a property with industrial boiler, heat exchanger, and a dozen independent zones w/ pumps, heat only, with particular needs to cycle pumps from time to time, keep active for minimum windows, etc. I also have a property with geothermal plus auxiliary electric. Of things I can manage from Siri, Google, and Alexa, both (only?) Nest and ecobee 3 were able to support these custom/advanced configurations, though I’d argue Nest was better with the commercial/heavy needs, both in the installer options available, and in service support. I haven’t found others that support these options that are also supported by HomeKit (Homebridge) or Home Assistant.
starbugs 6y ago
Yeah. Higher quality is nice. But being sold on open source software availability and then “losing” it in this way feels like a ripoff. This is really not a good move.
- UI-throwaway 6y ago
  UI is not a company to ever expect stability from.
  - gonesilent 6y ago
    Just ask the users of its solar products...or IoT devices..dead.
- graton 6y ago
  The software for Unifi Video has never been open source from my knowledge. I'm not sure if any of Ubiquiti software is open source. You can download and install it on your own hardware. But it wasn't open source.
rdudek 6y ago
Agreed. I just redid my entire network and went with a Ultimate Dream Machine Pro setup from them. My network has never been faster coming from standard netgear router. Setting up all the necessary VLANs to keep IoT devices away from main network was a breeze and I was able to slap a HDD into it and hook up couple of cameras. System works very well. I just wish the powers were PoE.
- locusm 6y ago
  I have been trying out UDM/P at home to see if its suitable for clients. Jesus what a buggy product.
  - locusm 6y ago
    Examples - Stats are completely borked - eye candy that is totally inaccurate and useless. - Switch ports flapping when saving config - Port forwarding broken - No support for my /29 on WAN port That was just what I came across in the first couple of hours of playing.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      > Switch ports flapping when saving config This bit me and a colleague once in a production environment. Changing trivial details that did not justify a restart of the interface bounced the WAN port and interrupted a couple conference calls.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
    I absolutely concur. Even on 1.7.2 things are a mess.
- atonse 6y ago
  Any guides on setting up IoT VLANs for some of us who have UBNT but not the full network knowledge to do the best practice?
  - rdudek 6y ago
syshum 6y ago
Unifi video was markeded to the smb space not home users. I know of zero smb's using nest or ring for their business. That is a consumer product group.
tw04 6y ago
I completely disagree. Their code quality has gone down the tubes. The new UDM/UXG routers have 1/10th the functionality of the previous generation USG and have been buggy from the get-go including such basic functionality as not hard-locking when utilizing an SFP for your WAN ports. The Unifi Protect software isn't even close to feature parity with Video and there's not even a hint that it will get there before they EOL Video. Their largest "hardware" option supports a whopping 4 hard drives and forces you to use RAID-5 across them. No AI functionality to detect humans/animals/cars, it barely even qualifies as an NVR. Blue Iris runs absolute circles around Protect and actually has a full feature set for less money and no hardware tie-in. Ubiquiti has been trying their hardest to jump the shark in 2020 and I'm getting closer to dropping them from my network entirely.
- mason55 6y ago
  > I'm getting closer to dropping them from my network entirely. What are the best alternatives right now? Planning to do a whole house in the next few months and have been planning on Ubiquiti. I've heard some complaints lately but haven't heard of anything that makes for a good replacement. My number one requirement is mesh APs with fast handoff. Close second is ease of admining multiple networks and ease of setting up segregated VLANs for IoT stuff.
  - tw04 6y ago
    I recently saw Aruba has come out with a consumer focused line. Given how good their enterprise gear is, I'd imagine it's solid. Haven't used it myself yet but heard good things from friends. https://www.arubainstanton.com/ https://www.arubainstanton.com/ For a router I'm back to pfsense/opnsense (haven't decided which one is going to stick).
  - c0nsumer 6y ago
    I've been thinking of Aruba APs and a FortiGate 61F. It'll be more manual setup, but should work fine. I've got a nice UniFi setup at home (CloudKey G2, USG, 8-port switch, wired AP, mesh'd AP) and it works well, but it's lacking in some frustrating ways. For example, it advertises DPI, but it doesn't provide data that can guide decisions. It'll group things into buckets, but you can't look at it over any timeframe (doesn't even say when you reset the counters) much less trigger on if anything exeptional happens. There's also this nifty power widget which you can connect to a cable modem (between it and mains power) and when the internet connection fails, it'll power cycle the modem... not a bad thing for some iffy ISPs. It works, but it doesn't log to the otherwise-reasonably-extensive system logs. So, you never know if it actually DID anything. The setup here at home works well. The APs are solid, as is the security gateway. But it just seems to lack in some advertised ways; enough so to make me question sticking with them when it next becomes time to upgrade.
lsllc 6y ago
I've struggled running Unifi Controllers in containers, UNMS is fine, but any Java based controllers (UniFi itself and UniFi Video) just consumes memory until it fails. Also running mongodb in a container seems to constantly leave the database in a state of corruption when the container inevitably fails. In the end I got a Unifi Cloud Key Gen2+ and now I happily run both UniFi Protect AND the the UniFi controller on it without any issues. The Cloud Key Gen2+ is PoE so I can power it from my EdgeSwitch and it even has a battery backup so it can safely power down during an outage. Definitely worth the $189.

by dotBen 6y ago

njovin 6y ago

I recently started getting into home automation and was appalled to learn that Nest no longer provides an API to access my own devices. What’s the point of a “smart” system if you’re completely limited to what functionality a single vendor wants to allow? I got rid of my Nest and got an Ecobee. Their APIs are confusing IMO and missing some basic functionality but it’s workable for my needs.

ac29 6y ago
Nest is transitioning to a different API, not getting rid of it completely. Individuals can sign up for access here: https://developers.google.com/nest/device-access https://developers.google.com/nest/device-access
- russell_h 6y ago
  According to that page the API for individuals won’t exist until late 2020.
- toast0 6y ago
  Nest (Google) gotten rid of their API and are promissing to have a new API real soon now. It may not have the full features of the old API, the messaging hasn't been consistent, but they had suggested that APIs could be read only, which is limiting. Meanwhile, they've added agressive captchas to the website, and are switching our their undocumented json api for an undocumented protobuf api. Unfortunately, they seem to be the only smart thermostat that supports separate aux heat and emergency heat wires. I don't know for sure if my HVAC system actually treats those differently, but it's wired for it, and the previous system had it, so I'd want to retain that. (But please correct me if there's a better choice... I'm tired of not being able to use the hardware I bought to do what I want it to do; single stage heat pump, with 7 wires: common (c), power (r), heat pump (o), fan (g), heat/cool (y), aux heat (w2), and emergency heat (*). Bonus points if the replacement has a big mounting bracket, cause the nest one just barely covers missed paint ;)
  - Terretta 6y ago
    In my installations, which I swapped from Nest to Ecobee, the Ecobee 3 supports aux heat: https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010176991-ecobee3-Wiring-Diagrams https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010176991-ec... https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000414828-How-to-minimize-the-use-of-auxiliary-heat-with-a-heat-pump-on-your-ecobee-thermostat https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000414828-Ho... Note that with basic Ecobee systems, you may have to purchase another adapter to connect to some systems. The Ecobee 3 (not Lite) I didn’t have to. https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028428931-What-are-the-differences-between-ecobee-SmartThermostat-with-voice-control-ecobee4-ecobee3-lite-and-ecobee3- https://support.ecobee.com/hc/en-us/articles/360028428931-Wh... I have a property with industrial boiler, heat exchanger, and a dozen independent zones w/ pumps, heat only, with particular needs to cycle pumps from time to time, keep active for minimum windows, etc. I also have a property with geothermal plus auxiliary electric. Of things I can manage from Siri, Google, and Alexa, both (only?) Nest and ecobee 3 were able to support these custom/advanced configurations, though I’d argue Nest was better with the commercial/heavy needs, both in the installer options available, and in service support. I haven’t found others that support these options that are also supported by HomeKit (Homebridge) or Home Assistant.

starbugs 6y ago

Yeah. Higher quality is nice. But being sold on open source software availability and then “losing” it in this way feels like a ripoff. This is really not a good move.

UI-throwaway 6y ago
UI is not a company to ever expect stability from.
- gonesilent 6y ago
  Just ask the users of its solar products...or IoT devices..dead.
graton 6y ago
The software for Unifi Video has never been open source from my knowledge. I'm not sure if any of Ubiquiti software is open source. You can download and install it on your own hardware. But it wasn't open source.

rdudek 6y ago

Agreed. I just redid my entire network and went with a Ultimate Dream Machine Pro setup from them. My network has never been faster coming from standard netgear router. Setting up all the necessary VLANs to keep IoT devices away from main network was a breeze and I was able to slap a HDD into it and hook up couple of cameras. System works very well. I just wish the powers were PoE.

locusm 6y ago
I have been trying out UDM/P at home to see if its suitable for clients. Jesus what a buggy product.
- locusm 6y ago
  Examples - Stats are completely borked - eye candy that is totally inaccurate and useless. - Switch ports flapping when saving config - Port forwarding broken - No support for my /29 on WAN port That was just what I came across in the first couple of hours of playing.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    > Switch ports flapping when saving config This bit me and a colleague once in a production environment. Changing trivial details that did not justify a restart of the interface bounced the WAN port and interrupted a couple conference calls.
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  I absolutely concur. Even on 1.7.2 things are a mess.
atonse 6y ago
Any guides on setting up IoT VLANs for some of us who have UBNT but not the full network knowledge to do the best practice?
- rdudek 6y ago

syshum 6y ago

Unifi video was markeded to the smb space not home users. I know of zero smb's using nest or ring for their business. That is a consumer product group.

tw04 6y ago

I completely disagree. Their code quality has gone down the tubes. The new UDM/UXG routers have 1/10th the functionality of the previous generation USG and have been buggy from the get-go including such basic functionality as not hard-locking when utilizing an SFP for your WAN ports. The Unifi Protect software isn't even close to feature parity with Video and there's not even a hint that it will get there before they EOL Video. Their largest "hardware" option supports a whopping 4 hard drives and forces you to use RAID-5 across them. No AI functionality to detect humans/animals/cars, it barely even qualifies as an NVR. Blue Iris runs absolute circles around Protect and actually has a full feature set for less money and no hardware tie-in. Ubiquiti has been trying their hardest to jump the shark in 2020 and I'm getting closer to dropping them from my network entirely.

mason55 6y ago
> I'm getting closer to dropping them from my network entirely. What are the best alternatives right now? Planning to do a whole house in the next few months and have been planning on Ubiquiti. I've heard some complaints lately but haven't heard of anything that makes for a good replacement. My number one requirement is mesh APs with fast handoff. Close second is ease of admining multiple networks and ease of setting up segregated VLANs for IoT stuff.
- tw04 6y ago
  I recently saw Aruba has come out with a consumer focused line. Given how good their enterprise gear is, I'd imagine it's solid. Haven't used it myself yet but heard good things from friends. https://www.arubainstanton.com/ https://www.arubainstanton.com/ For a router I'm back to pfsense/opnsense (haven't decided which one is going to stick).
- c0nsumer 6y ago
  I've been thinking of Aruba APs and a FortiGate 61F. It'll be more manual setup, but should work fine. I've got a nice UniFi setup at home (CloudKey G2, USG, 8-port switch, wired AP, mesh'd AP) and it works well, but it's lacking in some frustrating ways. For example, it advertises DPI, but it doesn't provide data that can guide decisions. It'll group things into buckets, but you can't look at it over any timeframe (doesn't even say when you reset the counters) much less trigger on if anything exeptional happens. There's also this nifty power widget which you can connect to a cable modem (between it and mains power) and when the internet connection fails, it'll power cycle the modem... not a bad thing for some iffy ISPs. It works, but it doesn't log to the otherwise-reasonably-extensive system logs. So, you never know if it actually DID anything. The setup here at home works well. The APs are solid, as is the security gateway. But it just seems to lack in some advertised ways; enough so to make me question sticking with them when it next becomes time to upgrade.

lsllc 6y ago

I've struggled running Unifi Controllers in containers, UNMS is fine, but any Java based controllers (UniFi itself and UniFi Video) just consumes memory until it fails. Also running mongodb in a container seems to constantly leave the database in a state of corruption when the container inevitably fails. In the end I got a Unifi Cloud Key Gen2+ and now I happily run both UniFi Protect AND the the UniFi controller on it without any issues. The Cloud Key Gen2+ is PoE so I can power it from my EdgeSwitch and it even has a battery backup so it can safely power down during an outage. Definitely worth the $189.