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Donald Trump is extreme. But he is not "extreme right."

by moduspol 6y ago

scarface74 6y ago
If he isn’t extreme right - what positions would be to the right of his?
- moduspol 6y ago
  A more right-wing politician would be: * Fiscally conservative * Against tariffs * Actually protective of gun rights * More interventionist in foreign affairs * Strong law and order approach to drug policy * Unsupportive of gay marriage * Actually religious It's a pretty commonly held view that Trump is more populist and "not a real conservative" even among his opponents.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarface74 6y ago
    When has there ever been a seriously fiscally conservative Presidential Candidate? Buchanan was considered one of the most right wing candidates in modern politics and he was very much pro tariffs. Trump is also very friendly with the NRA. Reagan was all about gun control - at least when Black folks were exercising their rights (the Muliford Act) He might support gay marriage but he also tried to remove health care from the transgender. All Republican candidates pander to the religious right without being actually religious.
    - lopmotr 6y ago
      > he also tried to remove health care from the transgender. How on earth could that be possible? Exclude them from the free government health care that other people get? Prohibit them from paying for their own healthcare? That's far too extreme to be true. I don't believe you unless it was just one of his random tweets that he doesn't really mean.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/868073068/transgender-health-protections-reversed-by-trump-administration https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/8680730...
        lopmotr 6y ago
        That's about sex discrimination being extended to transgenderism by Obama. Removing that is not at all what you said with "remove health care from the transgender". Exaggerating something to make it sound worse than it really is is dishonest if you know it's wrong or shows your opinions are misguided if you believe it's right.
        scarface74 6y ago
        So removing discrimination with regards to health care discrimination wouldn’t be paramount to removing health care in a conservative state if a provider refused to treat someone who was transgender?
    - moduspol 6y ago
      This is a pretty poor argument. It's not really coherent. > When has there ever been a seriously fiscally conservative Presidential Candidate? > All Republican candidates pander to the religious right without being actually religious. These aren't relevant to whether or not Trump is "extreme right." A politician who is more in line with them (like a Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan) would be more right-wing. > Buchanan was considered one of the most right wing candidates in modern politics and he was very much pro tariffs. > Trump is also very friendly with the NRA. Reagan was all about gun control - at least when Black folks were exercising their rights (the Muliford Act) These are just very cherry-picked examples of other politicians whose policies were also not 100% right-wing. That doesn't change the fact that tariffs and gun control (e.g. banning bump stocks) are not right wing positions. > He might support gay marriage but he also tried to remove health care from the transgender. He wanted to repeal Obamacare completely, but yes, that would include coverage for transgender people. I guess to me words still have meaning. If Trump is "extreme right", then "extreme right" doesn't mean anything except "I'm on the left and I don't like this guy." But I suppose that's the norm in 2020.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        These aren't relevant to whether or not Trump is "extreme right." A politician who is more in line with them (like a Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan) would be more right-wing. Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan both voted for the tax cut that reduced revenues but didn’t reduce spending - increasing the deficit. He wanted to repeal Obamacare completely, but yes, that would include coverage for transgender people It wasn’t just about repealing ObamaCare. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/868073068/transgender-health-protections-reversed-by-trump-administration https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/8680730...
- microcolonel 6y ago
  Basically any republican since Reagan. I mean, it's not like there's a reliable permanent definition of “right wing”, but Donald Trump was the first President to support gay marriage during his campaign, and his platform in large part reads like Bill Clinton's (especially on illegal immigration), minus the AWB and belief that China would liberalize.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    He “supported gay marriage” but then tried to take away rights from the transgender. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/868073068/transgender-health-protections-reversed-by-trump-administration https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/8680730... Clinton never campaigned on an outright ban legal immigration for all Muslims. This was far to the right of all of the Republican candidates who actually disagreed with him.
    - microcolonel 6y ago
      > He “supported gay marriage” but then tried to take away rights from the transgender. What rights do you think he took away, or attempted to take away, from transgender people? P.S. why is that in quotes? It's literally true. And twenty years ago, when the Supreme Court was tasked to decide whether an incidence of workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation was legal, he proposed legislation to make it explicitly illegal. Furthermore, during the heyday of DADT and DOMA, Donald Trump was (consistent with today) not for them at a time when they were popular among Democrats, in 1999 saying “that's not something that would disturb me” when asked about gays and lesbians serving in the armed forces.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Actually being seen by provider? Before the recent Supreme Court decision, a hospital could refuse treatment if they thought being transgender was a “sin”. I linked the article in the comment you replied to.
        6y ago

Donald Trump is extreme. But he is not "extreme right."

scarface74 6y ago

If he isn’t extreme right - what positions would be to the right of his?

moduspol 6y ago
A more right-wing politician would be: * Fiscally conservative * Against tariffs * Actually protective of gun rights * More interventionist in foreign affairs * Strong law and order approach to drug policy * Unsupportive of gay marriage * Actually religious It's a pretty commonly held view that Trump is more populist and "not a real conservative" even among his opponents.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface74 6y ago
  When has there ever been a seriously fiscally conservative Presidential Candidate? Buchanan was considered one of the most right wing candidates in modern politics and he was very much pro tariffs. Trump is also very friendly with the NRA. Reagan was all about gun control - at least when Black folks were exercising their rights (the Muliford Act) He might support gay marriage but he also tried to remove health care from the transgender. All Republican candidates pander to the religious right without being actually religious.
  - lopmotr 6y ago
    > he also tried to remove health care from the transgender. How on earth could that be possible? Exclude them from the free government health care that other people get? Prohibit them from paying for their own healthcare? That's far too extreme to be true. I don't believe you unless it was just one of his random tweets that he doesn't really mean.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/868073068/transgender-health-protections-reversed-by-trump-administration https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/8680730...
      - lopmotr 6y ago
        That's about sex discrimination being extended to transgenderism by Obama. Removing that is not at all what you said with "remove health care from the transgender". Exaggerating something to make it sound worse than it really is is dishonest if you know it's wrong or shows your opinions are misguided if you believe it's right.
        scarface74 6y ago
        So removing discrimination with regards to health care discrimination wouldn’t be paramount to removing health care in a conservative state if a provider refused to treat someone who was transgender?
  - moduspol 6y ago
    This is a pretty poor argument. It's not really coherent. > When has there ever been a seriously fiscally conservative Presidential Candidate? > All Republican candidates pander to the religious right without being actually religious. These aren't relevant to whether or not Trump is "extreme right." A politician who is more in line with them (like a Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan) would be more right-wing. > Buchanan was considered one of the most right wing candidates in modern politics and he was very much pro tariffs. > Trump is also very friendly with the NRA. Reagan was all about gun control - at least when Black folks were exercising their rights (the Muliford Act) These are just very cherry-picked examples of other politicians whose policies were also not 100% right-wing. That doesn't change the fact that tariffs and gun control (e.g. banning bump stocks) are not right wing positions. > He might support gay marriage but he also tried to remove health care from the transgender. He wanted to repeal Obamacare completely, but yes, that would include coverage for transgender people. I guess to me words still have meaning. If Trump is "extreme right", then "extreme right" doesn't mean anything except "I'm on the left and I don't like this guy." But I suppose that's the norm in 2020.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      These aren't relevant to whether or not Trump is "extreme right." A politician who is more in line with them (like a Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan) would be more right-wing. Ted Cruz and Paul Ryan both voted for the tax cut that reduced revenues but didn’t reduce spending - increasing the deficit. He wanted to repeal Obamacare completely, but yes, that would include coverage for transgender people It wasn’t just about repealing ObamaCare. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/868073068/transgender-health-protections-reversed-by-trump-administration https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/8680730...
microcolonel 6y ago
Basically any republican since Reagan. I mean, it's not like there's a reliable permanent definition of “right wing”, but Donald Trump was the first President to support gay marriage during his campaign, and his platform in large part reads like Bill Clinton's (especially on illegal immigration), minus the AWB and belief that China would liberalize.
- scarface74 6y ago
  He “supported gay marriage” but then tried to take away rights from the transgender. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/868073068/transgender-health-protections-reversed-by-trump-administration https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/12/8680730... Clinton never campaigned on an outright ban legal immigration for all Muslims. This was far to the right of all of the Republican candidates who actually disagreed with him.
  - microcolonel 6y ago
    > He “supported gay marriage” but then tried to take away rights from the transgender. What rights do you think he took away, or attempted to take away, from transgender people? P.S. why is that in quotes? It's literally true. And twenty years ago, when the Supreme Court was tasked to decide whether an incidence of workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation was legal, he proposed legislation to make it explicitly illegal. Furthermore, during the heyday of DADT and DOMA, Donald Trump was (consistent with today) not for them at a time when they were popular among Democrats, in 1999 saying “that's not something that would disturb me” when asked about gays and lesbians serving in the armed forces.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Actually being seen by provider? Before the recent Supreme Court decision, a hospital could refuse treatment if they thought being transgender was a “sin”. I linked the article in the comment you replied to.
      - 6y ago