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~50% of the population continues to support abortion, so I’d say we have a very long way to go.

wildfire 6y ago
Yes. How long until we can get to 100%? Hopefully valuing life and allowing people to choose will become just the default.
- throwaway6274 6y ago
  I don’t understand how you can say something like that with a clear conscience. But then again I don’t understand how China can treat the Uighurs the way they are and sleep at night either. I suppose people just rationalize other people in collective societal delusion as “sub-human” to the point where it’s easy to ignore.
  - Udik 6y ago
    > I don’t understand how you can say something like that with a clear conscience Not the gp, but my position is that equating a fetus to a person is a fallacy based in the idea that it's a potential person. Which however means it's actually not one. Human beings have language, thought, self-awareness, memories, knowledge, experience, friends, family, hopes and fears. A fetus, wild speculations aside, has none of these. A dna is just a long molecule, not necessary and not enough to attribute humanity. A developed brain and a sense of self instead are both necessary and sufficient. A fetus has neither.
  - NoahFancyson 6y ago
    The way I think of it is that there is a threshold where babies become real beings. You probably have this threshold too. For example, is masturbation wrong like abortion? You are killing off potential life. I think most people can agree it's not, as the sperm are not suffering and never really had a consciousness to cease. The disagreement is then about when the sperm becomes too alive to kill. Some people think it's at the moment of conception. Others think it's when the fetus has passed a certain level of development, like the first trimester There is also the matter of quality of life to think about. Is it better for a mom living in poverty, addicted to drugs, stuck in an abusive relationship, to bring a child into that world? I think that would actually be quite selfish. If a mom couldn't bear to have an abortion because of guilt, or because she can't stand the idea of ending a life inside her, that would be her prioritizing her own emotional response over the well-being of her child
orwin 6y ago
If contraception worked 100%, or if we were able to disable the libido whenever we want and prevent all rape from happening, maybe i would agree with that. Since we're not, until someone convince me the violinist argument is not receivable[0], i would continue to support women wanting early abortion. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion
- totetsu 6y ago
  I'd like to see some of Thomson's thought experiments made into VR minigames and released on steam.

Yes. How long until we can get to 100%? Hopefully valuing life and allowing people to choose will become just the default.

throwaway6274 6y ago
I don’t understand how you can say something like that with a clear conscience. But then again I don’t understand how China can treat the Uighurs the way they are and sleep at night either. I suppose people just rationalize other people in collective societal delusion as “sub-human” to the point where it’s easy to ignore.
- Udik 6y ago
  > I don’t understand how you can say something like that with a clear conscience Not the gp, but my position is that equating a fetus to a person is a fallacy based in the idea that it's a potential person. Which however means it's actually not one. Human beings have language, thought, self-awareness, memories, knowledge, experience, friends, family, hopes and fears. A fetus, wild speculations aside, has none of these. A dna is just a long molecule, not necessary and not enough to attribute humanity. A developed brain and a sense of self instead are both necessary and sufficient. A fetus has neither.
- NoahFancyson 6y ago
  The way I think of it is that there is a threshold where babies become real beings. You probably have this threshold too. For example, is masturbation wrong like abortion? You are killing off potential life. I think most people can agree it's not, as the sperm are not suffering and never really had a consciousness to cease. The disagreement is then about when the sperm becomes too alive to kill. Some people think it's at the moment of conception. Others think it's when the fetus has passed a certain level of development, like the first trimester There is also the matter of quality of life to think about. Is it better for a mom living in poverty, addicted to drugs, stuck in an abusive relationship, to bring a child into that world? I think that would actually be quite selfish. If a mom couldn't bear to have an abortion because of guilt, or because she can't stand the idea of ending a life inside her, that would be her prioritizing her own emotional response over the well-being of her child

orwin 6y ago

If contraception worked 100%, or if we were able to disable the libido whenever we want and prevent all rape from happening, maybe i would agree with that. Since we're not, until someone convince me the violinist argument is not receivable[0], i would continue to support women wanting early abortion. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion

totetsu 6y ago
I'd like to see some of Thomson's thought experiments made into VR minigames and released on steam.