6 ms·

Is It Okay to Go to the Beach?

33 points by prostoalex 6y ago

alpineidyll3 6y ago
The Atlantic tries to churn moral panic 24/7, and now they are trying to also churn anti-moral panic? Stop getting science advice from op-ed magazines! I sympathize with 100% of the Atlantic's political views and completely hate their desperate and misguided attempts to remain relevant.
- aeternum 6y ago
  Is it possible that the Atlantic employs multiple writers that don't all share the same set of opinions?
  - voxelghost 6y ago
    One could imagine that that might even be a good way to run a news paper.
  - Rapzid 6y ago
    It's just as likely they run op-eds from authors willing to have whatever opinion is necessary. The business of op-ed and analysis pieces is pretty crappy, and it does not require any moral or intellectual honesty from the authors.
    - taejo 6y ago
      The author of this piece, Zeynep Tufekci (https://twitter.com/zeynep https://twitter.com/zeynep), has had a pretty consistent viewpoint throughout the epidemic: she called for early response, early mask wearing (when most western authorities were advising against it) and co-authored a review on the topic (https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1 https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1), and has consistently said that closing outdoor public spaces is a mistake. Whether she's wrong or right, she's not just writing what the Atlantic's editors tell her to.
  - alpineidyll3 6y ago
    Sure, but cursory editorial summaries of cursory science are not a part of your healthy science diet.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bsder 6y ago
The problem is all those people ALSO go somewhere else AFTER the beach. Do they need to go to the bathroom? Do they all need gasoline for their cars? Snacks to go home? Are they all overloading the stores on the way out? Do they need to hit an ATM? THAT'S where all the spread will occur. Especially amongst a bunch of entitled dipshits who also don't believe in wearing masks or washing hands.
- Jolter 6y ago
  You ask a lot of questions for which the answer may very well be “no”.
  - thomaslord 6y ago
    Only if people plan ahead and make some attempt to help contain the disease (wearing masks, limiting non-essential indoor stops, social distancing), which it's now been proven we can't rely on (at least in the US). Unfortunately the people who feel most comfortable leaving the house are the people who are least likely to take precautions, which seems like a recipe for lots of super spreaders to me.
  - bsder 6y ago
    Only for locals. For everybody who drives to the beach (the vast majority of beachgoers), empirical evidence from California beaches suggests that the answers to all those questions is "yes". If you want to open the beaches only to those who can walk or bike to them, sure that's probably okay. Now, how do you enforce that? So, we're back to simply closing the beaches completely because it keeps the idiots at bay and is easy to enforce.
uwuwuwu 6y ago
Would be ok if everyone was wearing a mask. You go to the bathroom, cough cough, you go to the restaurant, cough cough, and you're driving back home with your friends in the car, cough cough. If we tried to reduce infection during these occasions, there maybe wasn't even a need for much lock-down. Germany is about to get rid of wearing masks in stores. That's like turning off the firewall because the attack is over. It's preventive, so you need to wear a mask before sth happens. I'd be very happy if there was an experiment, just for 4 weeks everybody should wear the damn mask both in private and public, and see what happens. How can so many people fail to grasp the concept of prevention?
- daddy_ 6y ago
  Wow, we’re really caught up in yelling at each other. Seems convenient for the people in charge of our response over the past six months and the organizations that have spent decades preparing for pandemics.
  - uwuwuwu 6y ago
    I didn't mean to yell - I'm simply astonished. A mask costs like 0.15€ or 0.17$ (based on Taiwans price with overall comparable price levels in Germany). Two masks a week, that cost is next to nothing. I think the response in Germany is quite good compared to many others. My main issue is: we compromise on having some infections and deaths, rather than compromising on wearing a mask.
    - mns 6y ago
      What are you talking about? Everyone wears a mask in Germany in closed spaces and public transport. I haven't seen a single person not do it and it's already part of daily life. I don't understand the point here?
      - uwuwuwu 6y ago
        Meck Pomm country wants to get rid of wearing masks.
musicale 6y ago
TL;DR: probably, as long as you maintain physical distancing.
reilly3000 6y ago
Being at the beach does not seem to be much of a threat, but going to the beach is a different story. Cramped, less than sanitary public restrooms, crowded food stands, parking kiosks that rarely get cleaned- this all adds up to lots of contact. Sweat is an interesting substrate which doesn’t get a lot of airtime, as are shared beverage containers. There are worse things than going to the beach, but when hundreds of thousands of people go to them at once, things most certainly get transmitted. I shudder to think how much gets transmitted at Venice Beach on a normal day, let alone in a pandemic.
CovidStatian 6y ago
It's Okay to Rust to it, but, Go'ing to it is illegal. Rust or bust people.
perl4ever 6y ago
At this point, don't we have quite a few examples of a lot of people getting infected in one place? Can't such outbreaks be categorized and summarized to get an overall perspective on where it's really hazardous? My impression is that such events have been places like bars, restaurants, meat packing plants, and nursing homes, and not outdoors, but I haven't seen an article or study on it.

33 points by prostoalex 6y ago

The Atlantic tries to churn moral panic 24/7, and now they are trying to also churn anti-moral panic? Stop getting science advice from op-ed magazines! I sympathize with 100% of the Atlantic's political views and completely hate their desperate and misguided attempts to remain relevant.

aeternum 6y ago
Is it possible that the Atlantic employs multiple writers that don't all share the same set of opinions?
- voxelghost 6y ago
  One could imagine that that might even be a good way to run a news paper.
- Rapzid 6y ago
  It's just as likely they run op-eds from authors willing to have whatever opinion is necessary. The business of op-ed and analysis pieces is pretty crappy, and it does not require any moral or intellectual honesty from the authors.
  - taejo 6y ago
    The author of this piece, Zeynep Tufekci (https://twitter.com/zeynep https://twitter.com/zeynep), has had a pretty consistent viewpoint throughout the epidemic: she called for early response, early mask wearing (when most western authorities were advising against it) and co-authored a review on the topic (https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1 https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1), and has consistently said that closing outdoor public spaces is a mistake. Whether she's wrong or right, she's not just writing what the Atlantic's editors tell her to.
- alpineidyll3 6y ago
  Sure, but cursory editorial summaries of cursory science are not a part of your healthy science diet.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

bsder 6y ago

The problem is all those people ALSO go somewhere else AFTER the beach. Do they need to go to the bathroom? Do they all need gasoline for their cars? Snacks to go home? Are they all overloading the stores on the way out? Do they need to hit an ATM? THAT'S where all the spread will occur. Especially amongst a bunch of entitled dipshits who also don't believe in wearing masks or washing hands.

Jolter 6y ago
You ask a lot of questions for which the answer may very well be “no”.
- thomaslord 6y ago
  Only if people plan ahead and make some attempt to help contain the disease (wearing masks, limiting non-essential indoor stops, social distancing), which it's now been proven we can't rely on (at least in the US). Unfortunately the people who feel most comfortable leaving the house are the people who are least likely to take precautions, which seems like a recipe for lots of super spreaders to me.
- bsder 6y ago
  Only for locals. For everybody who drives to the beach (the vast majority of beachgoers), empirical evidence from California beaches suggests that the answers to all those questions is "yes". If you want to open the beaches only to those who can walk or bike to them, sure that's probably okay. Now, how do you enforce that? So, we're back to simply closing the beaches completely because it keeps the idiots at bay and is easy to enforce.

uwuwuwu 6y ago

Would be ok if everyone was wearing a mask. You go to the bathroom, cough cough, you go to the restaurant, cough cough, and you're driving back home with your friends in the car, cough cough. If we tried to reduce infection during these occasions, there maybe wasn't even a need for much lock-down. Germany is about to get rid of wearing masks in stores. That's like turning off the firewall because the attack is over. It's preventive, so you need to wear a mask before sth happens. I'd be very happy if there was an experiment, just for 4 weeks everybody should wear the damn mask both in private and public, and see what happens. How can so many people fail to grasp the concept of prevention?

daddy_ 6y ago
Wow, we’re really caught up in yelling at each other. Seems convenient for the people in charge of our response over the past six months and the organizations that have spent decades preparing for pandemics.
- uwuwuwu 6y ago
  I didn't mean to yell - I'm simply astonished. A mask costs like 0.15€ or 0.17$ (based on Taiwans price with overall comparable price levels in Germany). Two masks a week, that cost is next to nothing. I think the response in Germany is quite good compared to many others. My main issue is: we compromise on having some infections and deaths, rather than compromising on wearing a mask.
  - mns 6y ago
    What are you talking about? Everyone wears a mask in Germany in closed spaces and public transport. I haven't seen a single person not do it and it's already part of daily life. I don't understand the point here?
    - uwuwuwu 6y ago
      Meck Pomm country wants to get rid of wearing masks.

musicale 6y ago

TL;DR: probably, as long as you maintain physical distancing.

reilly3000 6y ago

Being at the beach does not seem to be much of a threat, but going to the beach is a different story. Cramped, less than sanitary public restrooms, crowded food stands, parking kiosks that rarely get cleaned- this all adds up to lots of contact. Sweat is an interesting substrate which doesn’t get a lot of airtime, as are shared beverage containers. There are worse things than going to the beach, but when hundreds of thousands of people go to them at once, things most certainly get transmitted. I shudder to think how much gets transmitted at Venice Beach on a normal day, let alone in a pandemic.

CovidStatian 6y ago

It's Okay to Rust to it, but, Go'ing to it is illegal. Rust or bust people.

perl4ever 6y ago

At this point, don't we have quite a few examples of a lot of people getting infected in one place? Can't such outbreaks be categorized and summarized to get an overall perspective on where it's really hazardous? My impression is that such events have been places like bars, restaurants, meat packing plants, and nursing homes, and not outdoors, but I haven't seen an article or study on it.