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sounds like Iceland would do well to export hydrogen from electrolysis
by cultofmetatron 6y ago
sounds like Iceland would do well to export hydrogen from electrolysis
- speedgoose 6y agoTransporting hydrogen is expensive. It also has a tendency to leak.
- Erlich_Bachman 6y ago> It also has a tendency to leak. But I mean, that has to be a limitation of current technology, right? There has to be engineering solutions that we can devise to make it as safe statistically as for example gasoline transport?
- marcosdumay 6y ago> But I mean, that has to be a limitation of current technology, right? Not much. Hydrogen has a tendency of assuming a form that no material can hold. People have been working on chemical storage, but the efficiency always suffer.
- Xylakant 6y agoHydrogen has the nasty property of leaking through many materials, including metals. It also needs to be kept extremely cold. Both properties make it much harder to transport and store. It’s not clear that technology must exist that makes transporting and storing hydrogen as safe and economically viable as gasoline.
- ComputerGuru 6y agoEven storage of helium has largely been solved, and that is far more tricky than hydrogen. It’s just expensive.
- Xylakant 6y agoHelium is inert and not prone to explode when it sees the first spark. Also, as you indicate: storing helium is expensive - it is only economically viable because there is no competing product and hence whatever the price for helium storage is, it will get paid.
- SV_BubbleTime 6y agoRemind me but there is also no way to make new helium. It’s not a renewable, is it? I thought it was only available as a byproduct of natural gas collection.
- aidenn0 6y agoIf we ever figure out fusion, some forms of fusion result in helium.
- ComputerGuru 6y agoIf we ever figure out fusion, would this become a moot point or even more important than ever?
- dredmorbius 6y agoNo, it's not just a matter of technology, or at least not in ways that are readily addressable. Hydrogen molecules are so small that the simply pass through solid matter as if it were loose-weave cloth. Worse, it embrittles most metals. And the leaked gas, especially if in an enclosed space, is flammable or explosive over a very wide range of concentrations. Long-term storage, transport, and use, at scale, is hugely problematic. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/hydrogen-molecule https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/hydrogen-mo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/hydrogen-explosion https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/hydrogen-ex...
- dehrmann 6y agoIf you have cheap enough energy that you're making hydrogen, can't you also make hydrocarbons? Granted, at the efficiencies we're talking, their only real use would be air travel (and petrochemicals, I suppose).
- dredmorbius 6y agoYes. That's remarkable more sensible than futzing with naked hydrogen molecules, though the challenges here have been great as well. I covered the topic in a series of posts based on then-new research about six years ago. That's ... not developed much further: Primary article: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/22k71x/us_navy_electricitytofuel_synthesis_papers_and/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/22k71x/us_navy... Others: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/search?q=fischer-tropsch&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/search?q=fischer-tropsc... The main development since has been Foghorn, a Google (Alphabet) project attempting to develop the technology. It failed. https://x.company/projects/foghorn/ https://x.company/projects/foghorn/
- algo_trader 6y agoWhat is the oil-cost-equivalent of existing synfuel technology? (for uses such as air travel) IIRC at $150 oil these synfuels were already competitive?
- occamrazor 6y agoSafe probably yes. Economically competitive is much harder.
- thinkcontext 6y agoIceland exports renewable energy in the form of aluminum. They have the potential to develop more energy but it's controversial because of impact on the landscape.
- generatorguy 6y agoWhat type of energy can they develop? Iceland is well known for their geothermal energy I wouldn’t have thought that would have a huge impact on the landscape more than any other low rise industrial buildings.
- thinkcontext 6y ago70% of electricity is hydro, most of the rest is geothermal. On the consumption side about 70% is used for aluminum.
- Gibbon1 6y agoI ran into a fascinating paper published in the 1950's by a Norwegian group who ran a pilot plant to electrowin iron from iron-sulfide waste from a copper mine. They claimed something like 4-5 kwh per kg. Unlike electrowining aluminum it's a room temp aqueous process. My thought is, it's probably economic if you have access to intermittent sources of really cheap electricity.
- aitchnyu 6y agoAluminum is called congealed electricity due to the energy intensive manufacturing process and recycling is very economical.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- lucioperca 6y agoThey might be just connected to the Euro-Powergrid in the future: https://www.landsvirkjun.com/researchdevelopment/submarinecabletoeurope https://www.landsvirkjun.com/researchdevelopment/submarineca...