5 ms·

Or, more simply - they give us enough space to express complex thoughts, and there's good moderation. The problem in the online culture is very, very simple: T

by Mizza 6y ago

Or, more simply - they give us enough space to express complex thoughts, and there's good moderation. The problem in the online culture is very, very simple: Twitter. The basic mechanics of the service create an incredibly awful culture. The mentality it has created now pollutes the rest of the internet, as do screenshots of its content. Only narcissists use Twitter. I know a lot of people in my real life - the people I like don't use Twitter, those I don't like do use Twitter. I think we should simply shun people use who use it, and treat them with disgust, as if we found out they get their news from supermarket tabloids or post obnoxious YouTube comments. Many other internet platforms have risen and fallen before, I don't know why that one still lurches on.

walterbell 6y ago
There are professional communities on Twitter with collaboration and learning. But it takes effort to curate lists.
- geerlingguy 6y ago
  I think it's also an effect of the way most Twitter users interact with the feed. I've used Tweetbot for years, and other clients that only show the timeline in order before that, and I'm pretty religious about clearing out people who only post annoying/only political/negative content on their feeds. I've found it to be a great place for feedback on my own work and also for finding new things, but I also instinctively filter out about 90% of what I see even in my own curated listing that I browse. Every once in a while I get to Twitter.com and see how the algorithmic feed lays things out, and the experience would be a disaster, like with Facebook.
  - walterbell 6y ago
    Fortunately, Twitter lists remain chronological and can be connected to Flipboard to create a print-like newspaper navigation experience.
mjevans 6y ago
I suspect you're judging too quickly. Those you're having low quality interactions with use the platforms in question //recreationally//. Just like with drugs there's responsible use, and limited use for business, and then there's 'pack a day' use.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  Many people have often pointed to scientists as an example of this productive use of twitter, but if you look at the recent clash between Yann Lecun and Timnit Gebru that got some attention, it even causes shitstorms between otherwise polite academics who have conversations on what one wouldn't consider to be a mainstream issue. The medium is the message and sooner or later the twitter mechanisms get everyone regardless whether you have good social media hygiene. It's built for outrage. Instantanious nature, slot-machine like feeds, blinking like buttons, 'getting ratio'd', virality, this is what it's built for.
  - bostik 6y ago
    Plus the format itself. Twitter is inherently optimised for soundbites. Nuance and high-impact, 5-seconds-at-a-time communication don't really mix. Then add the incentives built into any (anti)social network: they automate piling on. Engagement über alles, users be damned. [I am painfully aware of the irony of posting a critical post about Twitter, quoting material that was originally posted at Twitter. The notion of pileon automation comes off of this tweet: https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/1143950836533473286?lang=en https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/1143950836533473286?la...]
djhaskin987 6y ago
> Or, more simply - they give us enough space to express complex thoughts, and there's good moderation. This is what it boils down to for me. Slashdot was great because of CmdrTaco and when he left it that was about the time when that site went down the tubes. Hacker news is great because of dang. When the moderators leave, the communities often rot.
hyperpape 6y ago
It’s late, and I can’t give this the effort it deserves, but there’s really a huge conflict when you’re saying “only narcissists use Twitter” in a discussion about how to be kind and productive on the Internet. There’s tons of crap on Twitter, but it’s just absurd to say only narcissists use Twitter. Disclaimer: I use Twitter, I may be biased against the claim that this makes a narcissist.
- zapzupnz 6y ago
  Yeah, I use Twitter because it’s part and parcel of being a Twitch streamer. Perhaps there’s a certain level of narcissism involved in being an entertainer but that line of argumentation might be a bit of a stretch. To me, it’s just one of the most effective communication tools for that particular arsenal. Announcements, updates, and even matchmaking is done there — it’s too valuable to ignore.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    I believe there's a fundamental difference. You're using Twitter as a tool, the problematic people use Twitter for entertainment and social interaction. It's like Paul Erdös using methamphetamine vs some random meth addict, there's a large difference in intent and control of usage (and likely also amount). There are also small groups of professionals and researchers who use Twitter effectively and very tool-like. They don't walk into politics, they use it to update everybody on stuff they find/learn and to be updated by everyone else. On paper, that's the intended way to use Twitter, but obviously they don't spend that much time on the platform, and they certainly don't get notifications on their phone when somebody they follow has tweeted something.
    - zapzupnz 6y ago
      In other words, broad sweeping generalisations about a service’s users are not useful.
      - StandardFuture 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by Mizza 6y ago

walterbell 6y ago

There are professional communities on Twitter with collaboration and learning. But it takes effort to curate lists.

geerlingguy 6y ago
I think it's also an effect of the way most Twitter users interact with the feed. I've used Tweetbot for years, and other clients that only show the timeline in order before that, and I'm pretty religious about clearing out people who only post annoying/only political/negative content on their feeds. I've found it to be a great place for feedback on my own work and also for finding new things, but I also instinctively filter out about 90% of what I see even in my own curated listing that I browse. Every once in a while I get to Twitter.com and see how the algorithmic feed lays things out, and the experience would be a disaster, like with Facebook.
- walterbell 6y ago
  Fortunately, Twitter lists remain chronological and can be connected to Flipboard to create a print-like newspaper navigation experience.

mjevans 6y ago

I suspect you're judging too quickly. Those you're having low quality interactions with use the platforms in question //recreationally//. Just like with drugs there's responsible use, and limited use for business, and then there's 'pack a day' use.

Barrin92 6y ago
Many people have often pointed to scientists as an example of this productive use of twitter, but if you look at the recent clash between Yann Lecun and Timnit Gebru that got some attention, it even causes shitstorms between otherwise polite academics who have conversations on what one wouldn't consider to be a mainstream issue. The medium is the message and sooner or later the twitter mechanisms get everyone regardless whether you have good social media hygiene. It's built for outrage. Instantanious nature, slot-machine like feeds, blinking like buttons, 'getting ratio'd', virality, this is what it's built for.
- bostik 6y ago
  Plus the format itself. Twitter is inherently optimised for soundbites. Nuance and high-impact, 5-seconds-at-a-time communication don't really mix. Then add the incentives built into any (anti)social network: they automate piling on. Engagement über alles, users be damned. [I am painfully aware of the irony of posting a critical post about Twitter, quoting material that was originally posted at Twitter. The notion of pileon automation comes off of this tweet: https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/1143950836533473286?lang=en https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/1143950836533473286?la...]

djhaskin987 6y ago

> Or, more simply - they give us enough space to express complex thoughts, and there's good moderation. This is what it boils down to for me. Slashdot was great because of CmdrTaco and when he left it that was about the time when that site went down the tubes. Hacker news is great because of dang. When the moderators leave, the communities often rot.

hyperpape 6y ago

It’s late, and I can’t give this the effort it deserves, but there’s really a huge conflict when you’re saying “only narcissists use Twitter” in a discussion about how to be kind and productive on the Internet. There’s tons of crap on Twitter, but it’s just absurd to say only narcissists use Twitter. Disclaimer: I use Twitter, I may be biased against the claim that this makes a narcissist.

zapzupnz 6y ago
Yeah, I use Twitter because it’s part and parcel of being a Twitch streamer. Perhaps there’s a certain level of narcissism involved in being an entertainer but that line of argumentation might be a bit of a stretch. To me, it’s just one of the most effective communication tools for that particular arsenal. Announcements, updates, and even matchmaking is done there — it’s too valuable to ignore.
- luckylion 6y ago
  I believe there's a fundamental difference. You're using Twitter as a tool, the problematic people use Twitter for entertainment and social interaction. It's like Paul Erdös using methamphetamine vs some random meth addict, there's a large difference in intent and control of usage (and likely also amount). There are also small groups of professionals and researchers who use Twitter effectively and very tool-like. They don't walk into politics, they use it to update everybody on stuff they find/learn and to be updated by everyone else. On paper, that's the intended way to use Twitter, but obviously they don't spend that much time on the platform, and they certainly don't get notifications on their phone when somebody they follow has tweeted something.
  - zapzupnz 6y ago
    In other words, broad sweeping generalisations about a service’s users are not useful.
    - StandardFuture 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]