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There's no uncertainty that unfit around the nose masks have giant centimeter squared open gaps. For protection of the wearer they're not good. Objectively in t

There's no uncertainty that unfit around the nose masks have giant centimeter squared open gaps. For protection of the wearer they're not good. Objectively in tests with similar gaps the rating is N30-N40. There needs to be a strong and lasting push for increased N95 mask production or at least purchasing. Pretending that ineffective unfit masks (of any material!) can fill the role of real masks does real damage and needs to stop. If everyone could rotate a set of N95 masks when indoors then spread could really be stopped. Even a synthetic/cotton/synthetic mask would be quite effective if they'd just incorporate metal nose bridge with foam.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Better-fitting masks made of non-woven cloth might help, but the focus on N95 and the confidence that "spread could really be stopped" by wearing them is exactly the kind of overconfidence the article warns against. There's no known evidence supporting the idea that good masks are a silver bullet.
- watwut 6y ago
  N95 is what doctors wear to generally not get sick while working. Had there been enough of them, it would likely do a lot. But back to real world, cloth masks is what we got.
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    I think I've read that N95 masks are in fact inferior to other kinds for "civilians" and I don't altogether believe this is propaganda to conserve them. It makes sense, doesn't it, that N95 masks filter air coming in, not out? My impression is the valve in masks that have them is a sign that it's not protecting others from you - the point is to let air out easily. There is an asymmetry between healthcare workers and the public - in a hospital, you have one non-infected person surrounded by a lot of infected people, while elsewhere, it's the opposite. I see a lot of people wearing surgical masks, and having just googled and read a page on 3M's site, it mentions: "Surgical/procedure or “medical” facemasks are designed to help keep spit and mucous generated by the wearer from reaching a patient or medical equipment. Some surgical/procedure masks do contain filter media but as they may not be designed to form a seal to the face, and have not been certified to meet all of the performance standards of a respirator, they should not be used to help reduce exposures to airborne particles" I feel like this is a simple difference that people can't comprehend due to a very primitive equation of protecting oneself and protecting others. There is a difference and it should inform our behavior. Edit: to clarify, I meant to contrast the N95 masks with a valve, that seem to make more sense for health care workers, with the surgical masks that seem to make more sense for the public.
auslegung 6y ago
This isn't about protection of the wearer, it's about prevention of spreading.
- superkuh 6y ago
  In that sense what has changed is the best guess at the main mechanisms of spread. Specifically the amount of spread mediated by large spittle on surfaces versus via aerosols. It has become increasingly clear from large spreading events (meatpacking with gloves/hygine in place, singing events being really bad) that aerosol spread is primary. So the protection that unfitted cloth masks provide, and it is some, isn't as much as you'd think against the primary mechanism of spread. Wear an unfit mask and sing and it's as bad as normal singing. I'm not arguing for not wearing bad masks when it's all you have. I'm saying it's super important that everyone starts getting real masks so we don't have to keep doing shelter-in-place every time spread goes exponential in an area again.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    It's currently believed SARS-CoV-2 spreads primarily via droplet, not aerosol. Singing propels droplets further (as does any heavy/forceful breathing), and choirs tend to sit close together. Six feet likely isn't enough for a choir. As for meatpacking, I've heard several interviews with workers that indicated the plants were only handing out one mask per shift, and they'd pretty quickly get contaminated by gore from the work, meaning in practice folks weren't wearing masks.
    - MAGZine 6y ago
      Right. I just want to further highlight that "aerosol," in the context of medical journals, has a specific meaning, and that your lungs generally aren't capable of aerosolizing the virus into small enough matter to qualify. The spread from coughing, sneezing, etc, is still considered droplet-based spread, NOT aerosol. Droplets can still be suspended in the air for a matter of seconds, however.
      - 6y ago

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

Better-fitting masks made of non-woven cloth might help, but the focus on N95 and the confidence that "spread could really be stopped" by wearing them is exactly the kind of overconfidence the article warns against. There's no known evidence supporting the idea that good masks are a silver bullet.

watwut 6y ago
N95 is what doctors wear to generally not get sick while working. Had there been enough of them, it would likely do a lot. But back to real world, cloth masks is what we got.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  I think I've read that N95 masks are in fact inferior to other kinds for "civilians" and I don't altogether believe this is propaganda to conserve them. It makes sense, doesn't it, that N95 masks filter air coming in, not out? My impression is the valve in masks that have them is a sign that it's not protecting others from you - the point is to let air out easily. There is an asymmetry between healthcare workers and the public - in a hospital, you have one non-infected person surrounded by a lot of infected people, while elsewhere, it's the opposite. I see a lot of people wearing surgical masks, and having just googled and read a page on 3M's site, it mentions: "Surgical/procedure or “medical” facemasks are designed to help keep spit and mucous generated by the wearer from reaching a patient or medical equipment. Some surgical/procedure masks do contain filter media but as they may not be designed to form a seal to the face, and have not been certified to meet all of the performance standards of a respirator, they should not be used to help reduce exposures to airborne particles" I feel like this is a simple difference that people can't comprehend due to a very primitive equation of protecting oneself and protecting others. There is a difference and it should inform our behavior. Edit: to clarify, I meant to contrast the N95 masks with a valve, that seem to make more sense for health care workers, with the surgical masks that seem to make more sense for the public.

auslegung 6y ago

This isn't about protection of the wearer, it's about prevention of spreading.

superkuh 6y ago
In that sense what has changed is the best guess at the main mechanisms of spread. Specifically the amount of spread mediated by large spittle on surfaces versus via aerosols. It has become increasingly clear from large spreading events (meatpacking with gloves/hygine in place, singing events being really bad) that aerosol spread is primary. So the protection that unfitted cloth masks provide, and it is some, isn't as much as you'd think against the primary mechanism of spread. Wear an unfit mask and sing and it's as bad as normal singing. I'm not arguing for not wearing bad masks when it's all you have. I'm saying it's super important that everyone starts getting real masks so we don't have to keep doing shelter-in-place every time spread goes exponential in an area again.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  It's currently believed SARS-CoV-2 spreads primarily via droplet, not aerosol. Singing propels droplets further (as does any heavy/forceful breathing), and choirs tend to sit close together. Six feet likely isn't enough for a choir. As for meatpacking, I've heard several interviews with workers that indicated the plants were only handing out one mask per shift, and they'd pretty quickly get contaminated by gore from the work, meaning in practice folks weren't wearing masks.
  - MAGZine 6y ago
    Right. I just want to further highlight that "aerosol," in the context of medical journals, has a specific meaning, and that your lungs generally aren't capable of aerosolizing the virus into small enough matter to qualify. The spread from coughing, sneezing, etc, is still considered droplet-based spread, NOT aerosol. Droplets can still be suspended in the air for a matter of seconds, however.
    - 6y ago