7 ms·

It's effective but it sounds like the fear is that the effectiveness is overhyped (says this specifically in the article)... and I think that's a valid concern.

It's effective but it sounds like the fear is that the effectiveness is overhyped (says this specifically in the article)... and I think that's a valid concern. If everyone thinks they can go out wearing a mask and forget about distancing and other measures, then that complicates things. Wearing a mask to go grocery shopping for 20 minutes is also different than say, wearing a mask and sitting in a theater or bar for 2 hours.

watwut 6y ago
The actual fear should be from people who dont wear masks, dont wash hands and generally act like covid-19 is a hoax. It does not even matter whether the non-mask wearer is not wearing it because he believes mask is not effective, mask is not needed due to covid not existing or mask is sign of being fearful and one gotta project bravery. Mask wearer who skipped washing hands once or approached someone 1.5 meters is still good.
- timr 6y ago
  "The actual fear should be from people who don't wear masks" I don't understand this. The actual fear should be any form of scientific misinformation. Eventually, the truth will be known, and if "scientists" are deemed to be advocating for policies that aren't supported by science, it will hurt science in the long run. On top of this, there is decent reason to believe that there's a down-side to mask laws: too many people think that they can behave normally if they're wearing a mask, when the evidence simply doesn't support it.
  - BolexNOLA 6y ago
    >On top of this, there is decent reason to believe that there's a down-side to mask laws: too many people think that they can behave normally if they're wearing a mask, when the evidence simply doesn't support it. I have seen this repeated many times but have not seen any evidence that really supports it. It just sounds like a common behavior. I would imagine the cross-section of people who are already going to act like it wasn’t a big deal and people who wear a mask that act like it’s not a big deal is already substantial. And while I also don’t have any data, I think it is as common sense as the other assumption and thus illustrates my point.
    - noodlesUK 6y ago
      Anecdotally, people give you a fair bit more space when you’re wearing a mask and clearly taking precautions than if you aren’t. I’d argue that in the current political climate, mask wearing might actually improve distancing measures. The people who aren’t wearing masks just don’t seem to give a shit. It’s a social signal about if you care about covid these days. I’m saddened that we can’t just make tonnes of melt blown and make n95s (that imo are more comfortable than normal masks cause they aren’t touching your lips) for anyone who wants them.
      - runnr_az 6y ago
        For what it’s worth, thus seems correct in my experience. I expected people to just throw on masks and behave “normally,” but the opposite seems to have happened - it serves as a reminder of the seriousness of the situation.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      Also an anecdote, but I know many people IRL who have said "The reason we should be able to open back up is everyone knows to wear a mask now." That doesn't mean people shouldn't wear masks, but... it's definitely the wrong takeaway.
  - watwut 6y ago
    > On top of this, there is decent reason to believe that there's a down-side to mask laws: too many people think that they can behave normally if they're wearing a mask, when the evidence simply doesn't support it. But you are just making that one up. You don't have studies showing people wearing masks taking more risk than non-masks wearing people. Also, the scientists talk about effectiveness of masks it is not like I had seen a single one claiming it is perfect. This whole argument is just being manipulative. Trying to pretend it is all about science and precision, when it is nothing like that.
    - BolexNOLA 6y ago
      It’s classic “it sounds right” nonsense
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    > too many people think that they can behave normally if they're wearing a mask I don't know how most people are thinking, but it's a pretty wide spread idea that masks (apart from the ones used in health care settings) are more for protecting others from you, than you from others. If people are thinking like this then it seems logical seeing someone with a mask would remind them that the asymptomatic can be a threat and encourage distancing. On the other hand, if most people are wearing masks then the few who don't stand out as abnormal, and so others might be wary of them too. I guess your generalization might be applicable to some states/cities more than others; under current circumstances, I think most people are not seeing what it's like in other places first hand.
bitexploder 6y ago
Also, well fitted N95 style masks are very different from a loose mask around the face.
- BolexNOLA 6y ago
  Still makes a world of difference though, especially because your mask (unless N95) isn’t for you as much as it’s for others. If two people interacting are both wearing - even loose fitting - cloth masks over their nose and mouth, the chance of spreading disease is orders of magnitude less.
  - gridlockd 6y ago
    We do not actually know that. That is the point.
    - cjbenedikt 6y ago
      We actually DO know that
      - gridlockd 6y ago
        Well, then where is the scientific evidence that simple masks reduce chance of spread by an order of magnitude, as described? There is none, because the science hasn't been done. There's a viral JPEG on the internet that claims this, it's just that. If we don't have that evidence, the we don't really know, plain and simple. That's not to say people should stop wearing masks. It's plausible that they help. It's just that we don't know the extent to which they help.
    - cjbenedikt 6y ago
      Widespread Use of Face Masks Could Save Tens of Thousands of Lives - https://www.npr.org/2020/07/03/886905055/widespread-use-of-face-masks-could-save-tens-of-thousands-of-lives-models-projec https://www.npr.org/2020/07/03/886905055/widespread-use-of-f...
Spooky23 6y ago
Masks have always been controversial, but I think what we have seen in terms of outcomes in the NY/NJ/CT area shows that they likely have some effect. Usually the studies that knock masks compare them against people following good hand washing protocol. Mask vs. person with good hygiene is different than the typical slob you find on the street.

watwut 6y ago

The actual fear should be from people who dont wear masks, dont wash hands and generally act like covid-19 is a hoax. It does not even matter whether the non-mask wearer is not wearing it because he believes mask is not effective, mask is not needed due to covid not existing or mask is sign of being fearful and one gotta project bravery. Mask wearer who skipped washing hands once or approached someone 1.5 meters is still good.

timr 6y ago
"The actual fear should be from people who don't wear masks" I don't understand this. The actual fear should be any form of scientific misinformation. Eventually, the truth will be known, and if "scientists" are deemed to be advocating for policies that aren't supported by science, it will hurt science in the long run. On top of this, there is decent reason to believe that there's a down-side to mask laws: too many people think that they can behave normally if they're wearing a mask, when the evidence simply doesn't support it.
- BolexNOLA 6y ago
  >On top of this, there is decent reason to believe that there's a down-side to mask laws: too many people think that they can behave normally if they're wearing a mask, when the evidence simply doesn't support it. I have seen this repeated many times but have not seen any evidence that really supports it. It just sounds like a common behavior. I would imagine the cross-section of people who are already going to act like it wasn’t a big deal and people who wear a mask that act like it’s not a big deal is already substantial. And while I also don’t have any data, I think it is as common sense as the other assumption and thus illustrates my point.
  - noodlesUK 6y ago
    Anecdotally, people give you a fair bit more space when you’re wearing a mask and clearly taking precautions than if you aren’t. I’d argue that in the current political climate, mask wearing might actually improve distancing measures. The people who aren’t wearing masks just don’t seem to give a shit. It’s a social signal about if you care about covid these days. I’m saddened that we can’t just make tonnes of melt blown and make n95s (that imo are more comfortable than normal masks cause they aren’t touching your lips) for anyone who wants them.
    - runnr_az 6y ago
      For what it’s worth, thus seems correct in my experience. I expected people to just throw on masks and behave “normally,” but the opposite seems to have happened - it serves as a reminder of the seriousness of the situation.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Also an anecdote, but I know many people IRL who have said "The reason we should be able to open back up is everyone knows to wear a mask now." That doesn't mean people shouldn't wear masks, but... it's definitely the wrong takeaway.
- watwut 6y ago
  > On top of this, there is decent reason to believe that there's a down-side to mask laws: too many people think that they can behave normally if they're wearing a mask, when the evidence simply doesn't support it. But you are just making that one up. You don't have studies showing people wearing masks taking more risk than non-masks wearing people. Also, the scientists talk about effectiveness of masks it is not like I had seen a single one claiming it is perfect. This whole argument is just being manipulative. Trying to pretend it is all about science and precision, when it is nothing like that.
  - BolexNOLA 6y ago
    It’s classic “it sounds right” nonsense
- perl4ever 6y ago
  > too many people think that they can behave normally if they're wearing a mask I don't know how most people are thinking, but it's a pretty wide spread idea that masks (apart from the ones used in health care settings) are more for protecting others from you, than you from others. If people are thinking like this then it seems logical seeing someone with a mask would remind them that the asymptomatic can be a threat and encourage distancing. On the other hand, if most people are wearing masks then the few who don't stand out as abnormal, and so others might be wary of them too. I guess your generalization might be applicable to some states/cities more than others; under current circumstances, I think most people are not seeing what it's like in other places first hand.

bitexploder 6y ago

Also, well fitted N95 style masks are very different from a loose mask around the face.

BolexNOLA 6y ago
Still makes a world of difference though, especially because your mask (unless N95) isn’t for you as much as it’s for others. If two people interacting are both wearing - even loose fitting - cloth masks over their nose and mouth, the chance of spreading disease is orders of magnitude less.
- gridlockd 6y ago
  We do not actually know that. That is the point.
  - cjbenedikt 6y ago
    We actually DO know that
    - gridlockd 6y ago
      Well, then where is the scientific evidence that simple masks reduce chance of spread by an order of magnitude, as described? There is none, because the science hasn't been done. There's a viral JPEG on the internet that claims this, it's just that. If we don't have that evidence, the we don't really know, plain and simple. That's not to say people should stop wearing masks. It's plausible that they help. It's just that we don't know the extent to which they help.
  - cjbenedikt 6y ago
    Widespread Use of Face Masks Could Save Tens of Thousands of Lives - https://www.npr.org/2020/07/03/886905055/widespread-use-of-face-masks-could-save-tens-of-thousands-of-lives-models-projec https://www.npr.org/2020/07/03/886905055/widespread-use-of-f...

Spooky23 6y ago

Masks have always been controversial, but I think what we have seen in terms of outcomes in the NY/NJ/CT area shows that they likely have some effect. Usually the studies that knock masks compare them against people following good hand washing protocol. Mask vs. person with good hygiene is different than the typical slob you find on the street.