4 ms·

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly

50 points by collective-intl 6y ago

twirlock 6y ago
What an irresponsible thing to publish. Don't they realize it's an election year!?
bhickey 6y ago
The confidence intervals on their mortality rates overlap.
- rumanator 6y ago
  Taken from the actual study: https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/ful... * Overall in-hospital mortality was 18.1% (95% CI:16.6%-19.7%); by treatment: * hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin, 157/783 (20.1% [95% CI: 17.3%-23.0%]), * hydroxychloroquine alone, 162/1202 (13.5% [95% CI: 11.6%-15.5%]), * azithromycin alone, 33/147 (22.4% [95% CI: 16.0%-30.1%]), * and neither drug, 108/409 (26.4% [95% CI: 22.2%-31.0%]) . And the conclusion: > In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality. Prospective trials are needed to examine this impact.
  - ec109685 6y ago
    I couldn’t figure out from the paper what was the criteria for giving each of the drugs.
    - tryptophan 6y ago
      Seems it was not random which is a minus, but >The combination of hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin was reserved for selected patients with severe COVID-19 and with minimal cardiac risk factors. This group still saw improvement over no treatment, which is a huge plus(unless cardiac function is correlated with covid susceptibility).
      - tom_mellior 6y ago
        > unless cardiac function is correlated with covid susceptibility Chronic heart disease is a factor associated with higher risk of COVID-19-related hospital death, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v... gives a hazard ratio of 1.27 adjusted for all the many other factors they looked at. So yes, it looks to me like at least some of what this Ford study measured was indeed that difference between people with pre-existing conditions dying at a higher rate than people without.
  - bhickey 6y ago
    Right. Their confidence intervals overlap: 17.3%-23.0% vs 22.2%-31.0% Factor in multiple hypothesis testing and it's worse than presented.
amonedude 6y ago
Why are we working on treatments and vaccines? This fat lazy coward in Washington said it's "going to go away."
Proven 6y ago
Ouch... "We triggered some folks!"
listenallyall 6y ago
It's simply amazing how the American mainstream media has chosen to report on hydrochloriquine as a bad, dangerous, potentially harmful drug prematurely, before any real testing has been completed. The results in this particular study may not hold up in wider testing, but they certainly might. How do these media members plan to reverse course if in fact, hydrochloriquine becomes a widely recommended treatment for Covid 19? https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-s-rhetoric-untested-medication-takes-dangerous-turn-n1211276 https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-s-rhetoric-un...
- m_mueller 6y ago
  So if I get it right from this cesspool of comments here, pro hydroxy chloroquine means your must be right wing while pro masks is a left wing signal? Are people really that nuts or is this some massive troll operation going on?
  - stkdump 6y ago
    I am not sure, if in the hour since you posted your comment stuff was deleted. But which exact comment do you refer to?
    - m_mueller 6y ago
      The dead comments. I think you can activate them somehow.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- rumanator 6y ago
  > It's simply amazing how the American mainstream media has chosen to report on hydrochloriquine as a bad, dangerous, potentially harmful drug prematurely, before any real testing has been completed. You got it entirely backwards. The drug has been pushed hard politically as a covid19 silver bullet although there were zero evidence and zero scientific studies on the subject. In response the scientific community responded by pointing the elephant in the room, and warning the public of the dangers of swallowing an unknown drug with known dangerous side-effects without any knowledge of its effectiveness other than political propaganda by an anti-intellectual political group. Let's not forget that so far there have been scientific studies that demonstrate that hydroxichloroquine has no observable effect on covid19 death rates. Yet, the drug keeps being pushed as political propaganda, this time around to also fuel conspiracy theories. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-di...

twirlock 6y ago

What an irresponsible thing to publish. Don't they realize it's an election year!?

bhickey 6y ago

The confidence intervals on their mortality rates overlap.

rumanator 6y ago
Taken from the actual study: https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/ful... * Overall in-hospital mortality was 18.1% (95% CI:16.6%-19.7%); by treatment: * hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin, 157/783 (20.1% [95% CI: 17.3%-23.0%]), * hydroxychloroquine alone, 162/1202 (13.5% [95% CI: 11.6%-15.5%]), * azithromycin alone, 33/147 (22.4% [95% CI: 16.0%-30.1%]), * and neither drug, 108/409 (26.4% [95% CI: 22.2%-31.0%]) . And the conclusion: > In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality. Prospective trials are needed to examine this impact.
- ec109685 6y ago
  I couldn’t figure out from the paper what was the criteria for giving each of the drugs.
  - tryptophan 6y ago
    Seems it was not random which is a minus, but >The combination of hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin was reserved for selected patients with severe COVID-19 and with minimal cardiac risk factors. This group still saw improvement over no treatment, which is a huge plus(unless cardiac function is correlated with covid susceptibility).
    - tom_mellior 6y ago
      > unless cardiac function is correlated with covid susceptibility Chronic heart disease is a factor associated with higher risk of COVID-19-related hospital death, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v... gives a hazard ratio of 1.27 adjusted for all the many other factors they looked at. So yes, it looks to me like at least some of what this Ford study measured was indeed that difference between people with pre-existing conditions dying at a higher rate than people without.
- bhickey 6y ago
  Right. Their confidence intervals overlap: 17.3%-23.0% vs 22.2%-31.0% Factor in multiple hypothesis testing and it's worse than presented.

amonedude 6y ago

Why are we working on treatments and vaccines? This fat lazy coward in Washington said it's "going to go away."

Proven 6y ago

Ouch... "We triggered some folks!"

listenallyall 6y ago

It's simply amazing how the American mainstream media has chosen to report on hydrochloriquine as a bad, dangerous, potentially harmful drug prematurely, before any real testing has been completed. The results in this particular study may not hold up in wider testing, but they certainly might. How do these media members plan to reverse course if in fact, hydrochloriquine becomes a widely recommended treatment for Covid 19? https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-s-rhetoric-untested-medication-takes-dangerous-turn-n1211276 https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-s-rhetoric-un...

m_mueller 6y ago
So if I get it right from this cesspool of comments here, pro hydroxy chloroquine means your must be right wing while pro masks is a left wing signal? Are people really that nuts or is this some massive troll operation going on?
- stkdump 6y ago
  I am not sure, if in the hour since you posted your comment stuff was deleted. But which exact comment do you refer to?
  - m_mueller 6y ago
    The dead comments. I think you can activate them somehow.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
rumanator 6y ago
> It's simply amazing how the American mainstream media has chosen to report on hydrochloriquine as a bad, dangerous, potentially harmful drug prematurely, before any real testing has been completed. You got it entirely backwards. The drug has been pushed hard politically as a covid19 silver bullet although there were zero evidence and zero scientific studies on the subject. In response the scientific community responded by pointing the elephant in the room, and warning the public of the dangers of swallowing an unknown drug with known dangerous side-effects without any knowledge of its effectiveness other than political propaganda by an anti-intellectual political group. Let's not forget that so far there have been scientific studies that demonstrate that hydroxichloroquine has no observable effect on covid19 death rates. Yet, the drug keeps being pushed as political propaganda, this time around to also fuel conspiracy theories. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-di...