9 ms·

I'm really happy that the "knowledge base management" type of tools are getting a lot more attention these days. In my opinion, the more brains that look at thi

I'm really happy that the "knowledge base management" type of tools are getting a lot more attention these days. In my opinion, the more brains that look at this area, the better the whole ecosystem will get. I'll have to download this and give it a try, and compare it to my current workflow. (I use org-roam on Emacs. I'm not sure if people are sick of org-mode and Emacs being mentioned on HN? I worry about becoming the stereotype of "how do you tell if someone is a Vegan (or uses Emacs)?" "Don't worry, they'll tell you". I don't want to derail any discussion though!) For those of you wondering about Zettelkasten and knowledge management, I suggest you start by reading "How to Take Smart Notes" by Sönke Ahrens: https://takesmartnotes.com/ https://takesmartnotes.com/ and https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/34507927-how-to-take-smart-notes https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/34507927-how-to-take-...

mxuribe 6y ago
> I'm really happy that the "knowledge base management" type of tools are getting a lot more attention these days... I share this happiness...It often feels like so many people assume this is a solved sort of area; But i believe it is not.
- fastball 6y ago
  It's a tough problem to solve. My co-founder and I worked on our product in this space for two years before we released it, and we still have a huge list of features and ideas that we'd like to integrate. The problem is that everyone's brains work differently / everyone has a different workflow, which is I think why we're seeing such an explosion of tools in the space. We've tried to address that with our app in a variety of ways, but it is very much an uphill battle.
- drcode 6y ago
  I think the main unsolved problem is that we need our notes organized both based on subject matter, as well as based on importance, with a high level of granularity on both dimensions (i.e. sentence level granularity) It's very hard to come up with a good, simple mechanism that lets you look at notes from both of those perspectives and to mix those two levels (i.e. "show me the high importance notes organized by subject") One associated challenge is that we don't really have a good way of knowing importance of information ahead of time, so an additional problem is to come up with good heuristics for estimating importance based on other factors.
daffy 6y ago
Do tell if you find this has any advantage over Org mode.
esperent 6y ago
I do think that the area of knowledge management is very interesting and worthy of discussion. When it comes to tooling though, I've tried out a couple and I don't find anything superior to a folder full of markdown files + your favorite text editor (I use VSCode, but I don't think that's especially important). Systems like Zettelkasten are interesting to read about, but again, everyone's brain is different and for me a bunch of folder categories and one misc/daily folder is just as good. On a purely personal level, any tooling or system more complex than what I already use is unnecessary.
- SquishyPanda23 6y ago
  One thing this ecosystem is missing is a measure of how effective people are after switching from one tool or another. E.g. our company implemented the use of Zettelkasten in a randomized trial and engineering efficiency improved by x% in the experimental group compared with y% in the control group. It seems like much of the ecosystem is like some areas of the Linux ecosystem, where the goal is more to focus on getting the tools and process just so than on the impact the tooling has on actual productivity.
  - jpxw 6y ago
    How do you quantify “efficiency“?
    - SquishyPanda23 6y ago
      However you like. Presumably people invest in these tools for some reason. Maybe "developer ergonomics survey results" is one definition of the goal is just for people to feel more in command of their area of work.
    - iamstupidsimple 6y ago
      <s>Lines of code / time</s>
  - Kinrany 6y ago
    Re: research on engineering efficiency, there needs to be a baseline to compare with, and a way to make the studies reproducible.
hjek 6y ago
As a vegan Emacs + org-mode user, I found your comment hilariously spot-on!
- eggsmediumrare 6y ago
  Only a vegetarian, but I do crossfit (lower case very intentional).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
koheripbal 6y ago
I've just been using Google Docs. It's simple, searchable, and I can read/edit my notes while sitting on the can. The only markup I use are: links, lists, bold/underline/strikeout, embedded images? What am I missing?
- npongratz 6y ago
  My experience with Google Docs makes me want to strangle it. It's slow, unresponsive, uses a ton of memory, and I can't shake the constant nagging weight of surveillance being done against me. EDIT: Oh, and just this last week, I found it couldn't understand that I wanted to use "set up" as a verb, instead of "setup", the noun. Constant underlining when underlining was neither necessary nor desired. Apparently when I told Docs a month ago to avoid critiquing my grammar (via its Settings), it took my mandate as merely an ephemeral suggestion.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    My daily journal is up to 110 pages long. I haven't noticed any performance issues (though it does take 5-6 seconds to load on mobile). As for autocorrect - you can turn that off in Tools->Spelling and Grammar.
    - pkalinowski 6y ago
      In my experience input lag in Google Docs is very small but noticeable compared to local writing. You can get used to it, but I prefer more snappy experience.
komarov_om 6y ago
It would be awesome to see these kind of tools taken to the next level. So far we are "just" doing Zettelkasten in computers. What I mean by the next level is something like: - when I pick up a new e-book, show me the chapters that have new ideas that I'm not familiar with yet, so I can skip the things I already know - let me see how my ideas/opinions on a given topic were evolving through time, which encounters have influenced them - let me publish a slice of personal knowledge base for others to explore, let me see what my friends published (better social media?)
mcdevilkiller 6y ago
Do you also use GNU/Hurd? /s

mxuribe 6y ago

> I'm really happy that the "knowledge base management" type of tools are getting a lot more attention these days... I share this happiness...It often feels like so many people assume this is a solved sort of area; But i believe it is not.

fastball 6y ago
It's a tough problem to solve. My co-founder and I worked on our product in this space for two years before we released it, and we still have a huge list of features and ideas that we'd like to integrate. The problem is that everyone's brains work differently / everyone has a different workflow, which is I think why we're seeing such an explosion of tools in the space. We've tried to address that with our app in a variety of ways, but it is very much an uphill battle.
drcode 6y ago
I think the main unsolved problem is that we need our notes organized both based on subject matter, as well as based on importance, with a high level of granularity on both dimensions (i.e. sentence level granularity) It's very hard to come up with a good, simple mechanism that lets you look at notes from both of those perspectives and to mix those two levels (i.e. "show me the high importance notes organized by subject") One associated challenge is that we don't really have a good way of knowing importance of information ahead of time, so an additional problem is to come up with good heuristics for estimating importance based on other factors.

daffy 6y ago

Do tell if you find this has any advantage over Org mode.

esperent 6y ago

I do think that the area of knowledge management is very interesting and worthy of discussion. When it comes to tooling though, I've tried out a couple and I don't find anything superior to a folder full of markdown files + your favorite text editor (I use VSCode, but I don't think that's especially important). Systems like Zettelkasten are interesting to read about, but again, everyone's brain is different and for me a bunch of folder categories and one misc/daily folder is just as good. On a purely personal level, any tooling or system more complex than what I already use is unnecessary.

SquishyPanda23 6y ago
One thing this ecosystem is missing is a measure of how effective people are after switching from one tool or another. E.g. our company implemented the use of Zettelkasten in a randomized trial and engineering efficiency improved by x% in the experimental group compared with y% in the control group. It seems like much of the ecosystem is like some areas of the Linux ecosystem, where the goal is more to focus on getting the tools and process just so than on the impact the tooling has on actual productivity.
- jpxw 6y ago
  How do you quantify “efficiency“?
  - SquishyPanda23 6y ago
    However you like. Presumably people invest in these tools for some reason. Maybe "developer ergonomics survey results" is one definition of the goal is just for people to feel more in command of their area of work.
  - iamstupidsimple 6y ago
    <s>Lines of code / time</s>
- Kinrany 6y ago
  Re: research on engineering efficiency, there needs to be a baseline to compare with, and a way to make the studies reproducible.

hjek 6y ago

As a vegan Emacs + org-mode user, I found your comment hilariously spot-on!

eggsmediumrare 6y ago
Only a vegetarian, but I do crossfit (lower case very intentional).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

koheripbal 6y ago

I've just been using Google Docs. It's simple, searchable, and I can read/edit my notes while sitting on the can. The only markup I use are: links, lists, bold/underline/strikeout, embedded images? What am I missing?

npongratz 6y ago
My experience with Google Docs makes me want to strangle it. It's slow, unresponsive, uses a ton of memory, and I can't shake the constant nagging weight of surveillance being done against me. EDIT: Oh, and just this last week, I found it couldn't understand that I wanted to use "set up" as a verb, instead of "setup", the noun. Constant underlining when underlining was neither necessary nor desired. Apparently when I told Docs a month ago to avoid critiquing my grammar (via its Settings), it took my mandate as merely an ephemeral suggestion.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  My daily journal is up to 110 pages long. I haven't noticed any performance issues (though it does take 5-6 seconds to load on mobile). As for autocorrect - you can turn that off in Tools->Spelling and Grammar.
  - pkalinowski 6y ago
    In my experience input lag in Google Docs is very small but noticeable compared to local writing. You can get used to it, but I prefer more snappy experience.

komarov_om 6y ago

It would be awesome to see these kind of tools taken to the next level. So far we are "just" doing Zettelkasten in computers. What I mean by the next level is something like: - when I pick up a new e-book, show me the chapters that have new ideas that I'm not familiar with yet, so I can skip the things I already know - let me see how my ideas/opinions on a given topic were evolving through time, which encounters have influenced them - let me publish a slice of personal knowledge base for others to explore, let me see what my friends published (better social media?)

mcdevilkiller 6y ago

Do you also use GNU/Hurd? /s