6 ms·

The best line is when he says, "features.html should 404." What he says is basically: 1. Develop a niche, and this is probably easier if you target women. 2.

by noahc 16y ago

The best line is when he says, "features.html should 404." What he says is basically: 1. Develop a niche, and this is probably easier if you target women. 2. Sell an emotional experience, not features. 3. Tell stories because software is boring. 4. Profit!!!

dtby 16y ago
2. Sell an emotional experience, not features. Eh, that works for your market. 3. Tell stories because software is boring. Now we're getting somewhere, this is universally applicable.
- MPSimmons 16y ago
  I think the underserved market is pretty much non-geeks. I don't really think non-geeks like features as much as they like being able to do things.
  - dpcan 16y ago
    I kind-of agree with dtby because I've been able to sell some of my web software because of my massively exhaustive list of features. For my customers, it left them thinking, man we have to have this, we had no idea there was a software solution for all these problems.
- tptacek 16y ago
  Bzzzt. You are having a common nerd/guy adverse reaction to the word "emotional", but as someone who has sold software and services to huge companies staffed with gun-totin' Ron Swansons for 15 years, let me assure you, everyone is receptive to emotions. They're just different emotions†. Watch Patrick's talk. Particularly the Google slide. † "Fear" is one my industry has used to great effect; "egotism" is another one.
  - dtby 16y ago
    And as someone who has sold software and services to huge companies with gun-totin' Ron Swansons for over 15 years, let me assure you that this is untrue. So, yeah, it's a question of approach. Which was my entire point.
    - tptacek 16y ago
      You've never seen the "better" product, with superior performance and more feature check-boxes, lose to the product with the more attractive user interface? Because I feel like that's the oldest blues song I've heard sung.
      - dtby 16y ago
        Of course. But I don't believe that every sale I have lost for what I believe to be non-rational reasons is inherently an emotional decision. Sometimes I just don't understand the motivations of my customers.
        tptacek 16y ago
        We're spiraling here. All I'm saying is, emotional appeals are very much in play in most markets, very much including old conservative white males in '50s-era financial products businesses (fear; get - me - home - in - time - to - see - the - kids; fraternity) and young thin white males at software shops (vanity). Someone said, "sell emotional experiences and features". You said something to the effect of "eh, maybe that works in your market". Here's where I cut in: bzzt! It works in virtually all markets. Even in buy-by-committee enterprise sales, there are emotional appeals that will give you an edge. A fun exercise: look at the most successful, best marketed products in a variety of fields, and spot the emotional elements. Start with Github.
        dtby 16y ago
        It's all good. I've lived an odd life, but essentially every dollar I have made has come from someone thinking he is getting more value for his dollar than I am charging him for my software/service/whatever. Considering the businesses in which I have often found myself, that has often meant that they felt they were smarter than me. I doubt any of them felt an emotion beyond greed. If that counts, then I'm well and truly wrong. Then, again, you managed to drag a huge thread out of me based on my emotional reaction to your (frankly offensive) "Bzzt" so maybe you're right for "most" markets.
  - ahoyhere 16y ago
    Now now, tptacek, you know that thinking you're superior isn't an emotion if it's a fact ;)
bane 16y ago
Sounds basically like the Apple method (sans the explicit focus on Women)
pbhjpbhj 16y ago
>'The best line is when he says, "features.html should 404."' Redirect 301 /features.html http://example.com/benefits http://example.com/benefits Surely ...?
Mz 16y ago
2. Sell an emotional experience, not features. Something I learned in the course of raising and homeschooling a couple of special needs kids: Emotion is a form of memory. People who lack much in the way of affect are terrible at making snap decisions. They lack a "gut feeling" to go on. That "gut feeling" is a shorthand way for the brain/body to store info and make decisions quickly. I have one son that is very emotional and capable of making snap decisions. I have one son who has little affect and can't make snap decisions. So I think using "emotional appeal" is a form of shorthand to communicate value to the audience. I don't think I can explain it better than that, but I really think it doesn't deserve the bad rap it gets. Emotional appeal is not some sort of illogical, shallow, silly means to make a decision. It is an alternate means, but not necessarily any less information-dense than scads and scads of logical analysis. In fact, it is probably more information dense (a la "a picture's worth a thousand words" -- "a gut feeling is worth hours and hours of study and analysis") and that is likely why it contains power to sell so much more effectively. Peace. Edit: Utterly baffled by the downvote. No one needs to upvote me, but some thoughts as to what the issue is would be appreciated. Thanks.
- philwelch 16y ago
  I didn't downvote you, but I am going to thoughtfully disagree. Emotional heuristics aren't cognitively worthless, and they're not even that bad, but they definitely have their own biases that you need to adjust for. Our emotional intuitions are largely shaped more by evolution than by our own values and preferences. If emotions were great cognitive tools, we wouldn't need to discover rationality.
  - Mz 16y ago
    Thanks, but I think I must have not made my point effectively. I'm well aware that we have biases and being burned can make one avoid something "illogically". But if you are trying to sell something, then emotional appeal contains shorthand, dense information. As an example, see edw519's post in this same thread and the remarks of his he linked to: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2372514 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2372514 In short, he says he wants someone "shaking with excitement" to use his product. "Shaking with excitement" conveys a great deal of info about the value of the product with very little effort. If you can sum up the value of your product so succinctly and powerfully, then there is a kind of density of info of the sort that influences decision-making (ie leads to sales). Does that make more sense?

by noahc 16y ago

dtby 16y ago

2. Sell an emotional experience, not features. Eh, that works for your market. 3. Tell stories because software is boring. Now we're getting somewhere, this is universally applicable.

MPSimmons 16y ago
I think the underserved market is pretty much non-geeks. I don't really think non-geeks like features as much as they like being able to do things.
- dpcan 16y ago
  I kind-of agree with dtby because I've been able to sell some of my web software because of my massively exhaustive list of features. For my customers, it left them thinking, man we have to have this, we had no idea there was a software solution for all these problems.
tptacek 16y ago
Bzzzt. You are having a common nerd/guy adverse reaction to the word "emotional", but as someone who has sold software and services to huge companies staffed with gun-totin' Ron Swansons for 15 years, let me assure you, everyone is receptive to emotions. They're just different emotions†. Watch Patrick's talk. Particularly the Google slide. † "Fear" is one my industry has used to great effect; "egotism" is another one.
- dtby 16y ago
  And as someone who has sold software and services to huge companies with gun-totin' Ron Swansons for over 15 years, let me assure you that this is untrue. So, yeah, it's a question of approach. Which was my entire point.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    You've never seen the "better" product, with superior performance and more feature check-boxes, lose to the product with the more attractive user interface? Because I feel like that's the oldest blues song I've heard sung.
    - dtby 16y ago
      Of course. But I don't believe that every sale I have lost for what I believe to be non-rational reasons is inherently an emotional decision. Sometimes I just don't understand the motivations of my customers.
      - tptacek 16y ago
        We're spiraling here. All I'm saying is, emotional appeals are very much in play in most markets, very much including old conservative white males in '50s-era financial products businesses (fear; get - me - home - in - time - to - see - the - kids; fraternity) and young thin white males at software shops (vanity). Someone said, "sell emotional experiences and features". You said something to the effect of "eh, maybe that works in your market". Here's where I cut in: bzzt! It works in virtually all markets. Even in buy-by-committee enterprise sales, there are emotional appeals that will give you an edge. A fun exercise: look at the most successful, best marketed products in a variety of fields, and spot the emotional elements. Start with Github.
        dtby 16y ago
        It's all good. I've lived an odd life, but essentially every dollar I have made has come from someone thinking he is getting more value for his dollar than I am charging him for my software/service/whatever. Considering the businesses in which I have often found myself, that has often meant that they felt they were smarter than me. I doubt any of them felt an emotion beyond greed. If that counts, then I'm well and truly wrong. Then, again, you managed to drag a huge thread out of me based on my emotional reaction to your (frankly offensive) "Bzzt" so maybe you're right for "most" markets.
- ahoyhere 16y ago
  Now now, tptacek, you know that thinking you're superior isn't an emotion if it's a fact ;)

bane 16y ago

Sounds basically like the Apple method (sans the explicit focus on Women)

pbhjpbhj 16y ago

>'The best line is when he says, "features.html should 404."' Redirect 301 /features.html http://example.com/benefits http://example.com/benefits Surely ...?

Mz 16y ago

2. Sell an emotional experience, not features. Something I learned in the course of raising and homeschooling a couple of special needs kids: Emotion is a form of memory. People who lack much in the way of affect are terrible at making snap decisions. They lack a "gut feeling" to go on. That "gut feeling" is a shorthand way for the brain/body to store info and make decisions quickly. I have one son that is very emotional and capable of making snap decisions. I have one son who has little affect and can't make snap decisions. So I think using "emotional appeal" is a form of shorthand to communicate value to the audience. I don't think I can explain it better than that, but I really think it doesn't deserve the bad rap it gets. Emotional appeal is not some sort of illogical, shallow, silly means to make a decision. It is an alternate means, but not necessarily any less information-dense than scads and scads of logical analysis. In fact, it is probably more information dense (a la "a picture's worth a thousand words" -- "a gut feeling is worth hours and hours of study and analysis") and that is likely why it contains power to sell so much more effectively. Peace. Edit: Utterly baffled by the downvote. No one needs to upvote me, but some thoughts as to what the issue is would be appreciated. Thanks.

philwelch 16y ago
I didn't downvote you, but I am going to thoughtfully disagree. Emotional heuristics aren't cognitively worthless, and they're not even that bad, but they definitely have their own biases that you need to adjust for. Our emotional intuitions are largely shaped more by evolution than by our own values and preferences. If emotions were great cognitive tools, we wouldn't need to discover rationality.
- Mz 16y ago
  Thanks, but I think I must have not made my point effectively. I'm well aware that we have biases and being burned can make one avoid something "illogically". But if you are trying to sell something, then emotional appeal contains shorthand, dense information. As an example, see edw519's post in this same thread and the remarks of his he linked to: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2372514 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2372514 In short, he says he wants someone "shaking with excitement" to use his product. "Shaking with excitement" conveys a great deal of info about the value of the product with very little effort. If you can sum up the value of your product so succinctly and powerfully, then there is a kind of density of info of the sort that influences decision-making (ie leads to sales). Does that make more sense?