9 ms·

In two weeks I move out of my $2,800/month, 3 bedroom apartment in Boston, MA. We're moving to a lower cost-of-living city. Our upstairs neighbours, who share

In two weeks I move out of my $2,800/month, 3 bedroom apartment in Boston, MA. We're moving to a lower cost-of-living city. Our upstairs neighbours, who share a 3 bedroom apartment are also all out. One moved to Denver (job opportunity), the other two are finding a more affordable alternative outside the city. These are young professionals who enjoy a patio and drinks on a Friday. Our landlord originally listed our unit back at $2,800/month but I see it's now at $2,500/month. My anecdotal evidence of the shift :)

kyleblarson 6y ago
On the flip side, I live in a very rural valley in North Central Washington State that is a prime location for climbing, skiing, mountain biking, etc. We are about 4 hours from Seattle in the summer when the pass is open. Housing prices have spiked in the last 6 months with many going pending in a day with cash offers. It was never like that before. The good builders are already booked through 2022 for new construction.
- driverdan 6y ago
  I've been watching a number of different markets and it's crazy. In Flagstaff and Chattanooga, for example, many houses get offers within hours of being listed.
  - jseliger 6y ago
    Millenials are demographically numerous and are also now bunched in the "make a family or don't" slice of time. Unless someone makes $300,000 or more a year, as almost no one does, that's very difficult in California, New York, Boston, and increasingly even places like Seattle. COVID may be accelerating preexisting trends and pressures.
- jseliger 6y ago
  There are companies like Factory OS: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/business/economy/modular-housing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/business/economy/modular-... or Build Atoms: https://www.buildatmos.com/timetobuild https://www.buildatmos.com/timetobuild that are supposed make rolling out new construction much faster and easier, though I don't know what their practical impact is right now.
- thebladerunner 6y ago
  People are moving out the city (or getting second homes) - that is exactly the trend you are seeing. The urbanization tide has reversed. For how long? Who knows...
- gregkerzhner 6y ago
  Do you live in Winthrop?
  - kyleblarson 6y ago
    Between Winthrop and Mazama
leereeves 6y ago
What's a LoC city?
- luxurytent 6y ago
  Oops, fixed. I was half-focusing on something else while writing my post. Meant to say "lower CoL [cost of living]" but .. that came out!
- HenryKissinger 6y ago
  < $2000 per month.
jdhn 6y ago
>Our landlord originally listed our unit back at $2,8000/month With a landlord demanding rent that high, how could you NOT move? :) Either way, this gives me a flicker of hope that maybe I can negotiate my rent down a bit this year.
- GuardianCaveman 6y ago
  My apartments reached out to me to offer same price lease which has never happened before in any apartment. Good luck!
  - dannyw 6y ago
    Ask for a slight discount.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- luxurytent 6y ago
  Called out for my two typos in separate posts :facepalm:
- godzillabrennus 6y ago
  3 bedroom at that price isn’t crazy for a big city. It’s actually pretty low cost. Though, in the Midwest you could have a mortgage on a five bedroom house for that amount.
  - mattmanser 6y ago
    It is crazy, it's just that you've got used to that crazy. What value is your landlord adding to the world? He's literally just a parasite skimming off your success.
    - zhaso 6y ago
      The landlord provides the option to live somewhere with significantly less time or financial commitment than would be required if buying. The number isn't the landlord's parasitic decision, it's just economics.
jseliger 6y ago
As high-cost cities that refuse to allow adequate housing to be built force residents out, the jobs are eventually going to follow. Established companies may stay to an extent, but the new ones will grow up in Denver, Phoenix, Austin, and so forth. It's a shift that may be impossible to arrest if or when it really gets going. Then we'll see thousands of articles about how SF, Boston, and so forth can't pay for the public services the cities want to pay for, and how terrible it is that companies are leaving. Those stories will contrast with the ones we've seen over the last decade, about how companies are evil and driving up the cost of housing. Edit to add, the other question is eviction. Right now SF appears to have banned eviction: https://sfist.com/2020/06/10/sf-supervisors-extend-eviction-moratorium-indefinitely/ https://sfist.com/2020/06/10/sf-supervisors-extend-eviction-.... If or when that ends, we'll see what the market clears at. I assume courts will eventually forbid an indefinite eviction moratorium, but courts are already willing to go along with rent control, so who knows?
- yuhong 6y ago
  I am thinking that forcing tens of thousands of employees to show up at office buildings and live in apartments is somewhat ridiculous, especially considering issues like food. Duplexes and fourplexes are probably a good compromise.
- adamsea 6y ago
  > Then we'll see thousands of articles about how SF, Boston, and so forth can't pay for the public services the cities want to pay for, and how terrible it is that companies are leaving. Perhaps, but I've also gotten the impression those companies weren't paying that much to begin with. But perhaps it is they were paying a lot, but not nearly as much as they should have been if they weren't able to buy their own legislation?
  - neilparikh 6y ago
    Because of bad tax policy in California (Prop 13), the biggest source of taxes in California is personal income tax, and mostly by high earners, who are likely employees of these companies. There's already an effect on revenues when the stock market goes up and down, so I imagine companies leaving California would have an even more pronounced effect. Just because corporate tax is low, doesn't mean the money isn't taxed, it'll just be taxed when it's given to employees as salaries. Additionally, I don't get the impression that companies are able to buy legislation in SF. Otherwise, we wouldn't have policies like Gross Receipts tax, which most of tech companies in SF opposed [0]. In general, I think this obsession with "making corporations pay their fair share" isn't the right way of deciding a good tax policy. We should tax things we want to incentivize as little as possible, and tax things we want to discourage as much as possible. Maybe that leads to higher corporate taxes (I suspect it wouldn't), but the mindset should not revolve around trying to get a pound of flesh. Additionally, it isn't even guaranteed that the tax burden will fall on the corporation just because they're the ones writing the check. So even if our goal is "make corporations pay", tax incidence can just lead to us making labour and customers pay instead. [0] - FWIW, I don't think gross receipts is not a very efficient tax, since it just encourages vertical integration and discourages multiple companies working together; ie. less competition. Unfortunately, Prop 13 prevents the economically efficient and fair source of revenue
lsllc 6y ago
Can I ask are you staying in the Boston suburbs or moving out of state? (the suburbs are not exactly cheap!).
- ghaff 6y ago
  Very little around the Boston metro is "cheap" but move 45 minutes to an hour out and prices can be a lot lower depending upon the town. Of course, you no longer have anything resembling urban amenities even if you're still in range of a day or night in town.
  - HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
    Sine I'm European, when you say urban amenities, what exactly are you referring to? Here our biggest problem with moving out of the city center tends to be the lack of sewage system so you have to pay to truck your tanks away which can get costly( and septic tanks are illegal).
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Walking to places, transit, good restaurants, etc. I don't have town sewer but I have a septic system (tank and leach field) and that's pretty normal in more rural areas. I'm not sure I've ever heard of someone with a cesspool that needs to be pumped on a regular basis although I'm sure that exists. Septic tanks should get cleaned out now and then too but that's an every few years thing. I do also pay for trash disposal and some things like that which are paid for by taxes in most cities but that's hardly a problem.
- luxurytent 6y ago
  We're moving to Halifax, Nova Scotia (We're Canadian citizens)

kyleblarson 6y ago

On the flip side, I live in a very rural valley in North Central Washington State that is a prime location for climbing, skiing, mountain biking, etc. We are about 4 hours from Seattle in the summer when the pass is open. Housing prices have spiked in the last 6 months with many going pending in a day with cash offers. It was never like that before. The good builders are already booked through 2022 for new construction.

driverdan 6y ago
I've been watching a number of different markets and it's crazy. In Flagstaff and Chattanooga, for example, many houses get offers within hours of being listed.
- jseliger 6y ago
  Millenials are demographically numerous and are also now bunched in the "make a family or don't" slice of time. Unless someone makes $300,000 or more a year, as almost no one does, that's very difficult in California, New York, Boston, and increasingly even places like Seattle. COVID may be accelerating preexisting trends and pressures.
jseliger 6y ago
There are companies like Factory OS: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/business/economy/modular-housing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/business/economy/modular-... or Build Atoms: https://www.buildatmos.com/timetobuild https://www.buildatmos.com/timetobuild that are supposed make rolling out new construction much faster and easier, though I don't know what their practical impact is right now.
thebladerunner 6y ago
People are moving out the city (or getting second homes) - that is exactly the trend you are seeing. The urbanization tide has reversed. For how long? Who knows...
gregkerzhner 6y ago
Do you live in Winthrop?
- kyleblarson 6y ago
  Between Winthrop and Mazama

leereeves 6y ago

What's a LoC city?

luxurytent 6y ago
Oops, fixed. I was half-focusing on something else while writing my post. Meant to say "lower CoL [cost of living]" but .. that came out!
HenryKissinger 6y ago
< $2000 per month.

jdhn 6y ago

>Our landlord originally listed our unit back at $2,8000/month With a landlord demanding rent that high, how could you NOT move? :) Either way, this gives me a flicker of hope that maybe I can negotiate my rent down a bit this year.

GuardianCaveman 6y ago
My apartments reached out to me to offer same price lease which has never happened before in any apartment. Good luck!
- dannyw 6y ago
  Ask for a slight discount.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
luxurytent 6y ago
Called out for my two typos in separate posts :facepalm:
godzillabrennus 6y ago
3 bedroom at that price isn’t crazy for a big city. It’s actually pretty low cost. Though, in the Midwest you could have a mortgage on a five bedroom house for that amount.
- mattmanser 6y ago
  It is crazy, it's just that you've got used to that crazy. What value is your landlord adding to the world? He's literally just a parasite skimming off your success.
  - zhaso 6y ago
    The landlord provides the option to live somewhere with significantly less time or financial commitment than would be required if buying. The number isn't the landlord's parasitic decision, it's just economics.

jseliger 6y ago

As high-cost cities that refuse to allow adequate housing to be built force residents out, the jobs are eventually going to follow. Established companies may stay to an extent, but the new ones will grow up in Denver, Phoenix, Austin, and so forth. It's a shift that may be impossible to arrest if or when it really gets going. Then we'll see thousands of articles about how SF, Boston, and so forth can't pay for the public services the cities want to pay for, and how terrible it is that companies are leaving. Those stories will contrast with the ones we've seen over the last decade, about how companies are evil and driving up the cost of housing. Edit to add, the other question is eviction. Right now SF appears to have banned eviction: https://sfist.com/2020/06/10/sf-supervisors-extend-eviction-moratorium-indefinitely/ https://sfist.com/2020/06/10/sf-supervisors-extend-eviction-.... If or when that ends, we'll see what the market clears at. I assume courts will eventually forbid an indefinite eviction moratorium, but courts are already willing to go along with rent control, so who knows?

yuhong 6y ago
I am thinking that forcing tens of thousands of employees to show up at office buildings and live in apartments is somewhat ridiculous, especially considering issues like food. Duplexes and fourplexes are probably a good compromise.
adamsea 6y ago
> Then we'll see thousands of articles about how SF, Boston, and so forth can't pay for the public services the cities want to pay for, and how terrible it is that companies are leaving. Perhaps, but I've also gotten the impression those companies weren't paying that much to begin with. But perhaps it is they were paying a lot, but not nearly as much as they should have been if they weren't able to buy their own legislation?
- neilparikh 6y ago
  Because of bad tax policy in California (Prop 13), the biggest source of taxes in California is personal income tax, and mostly by high earners, who are likely employees of these companies. There's already an effect on revenues when the stock market goes up and down, so I imagine companies leaving California would have an even more pronounced effect. Just because corporate tax is low, doesn't mean the money isn't taxed, it'll just be taxed when it's given to employees as salaries. Additionally, I don't get the impression that companies are able to buy legislation in SF. Otherwise, we wouldn't have policies like Gross Receipts tax, which most of tech companies in SF opposed [0]. In general, I think this obsession with "making corporations pay their fair share" isn't the right way of deciding a good tax policy. We should tax things we want to incentivize as little as possible, and tax things we want to discourage as much as possible. Maybe that leads to higher corporate taxes (I suspect it wouldn't), but the mindset should not revolve around trying to get a pound of flesh. Additionally, it isn't even guaranteed that the tax burden will fall on the corporation just because they're the ones writing the check. So even if our goal is "make corporations pay", tax incidence can just lead to us making labour and customers pay instead. [0] - FWIW, I don't think gross receipts is not a very efficient tax, since it just encourages vertical integration and discourages multiple companies working together; ie. less competition. Unfortunately, Prop 13 prevents the economically efficient and fair source of revenue

lsllc 6y ago

Can I ask are you staying in the Boston suburbs or moving out of state? (the suburbs are not exactly cheap!).

ghaff 6y ago
Very little around the Boston metro is "cheap" but move 45 minutes to an hour out and prices can be a lot lower depending upon the town. Of course, you no longer have anything resembling urban amenities even if you're still in range of a day or night in town.
- HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
  Sine I'm European, when you say urban amenities, what exactly are you referring to? Here our biggest problem with moving out of the city center tends to be the lack of sewage system so you have to pay to truck your tanks away which can get costly( and septic tanks are illegal).
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Walking to places, transit, good restaurants, etc. I don't have town sewer but I have a septic system (tank and leach field) and that's pretty normal in more rural areas. I'm not sure I've ever heard of someone with a cesspool that needs to be pumped on a regular basis although I'm sure that exists. Septic tanks should get cleaned out now and then too but that's an every few years thing. I do also pay for trash disposal and some things like that which are paid for by taxes in most cities but that's hardly a problem.
luxurytent 6y ago
We're moving to Halifax, Nova Scotia (We're Canadian citizens)