7 ms·

Correct. Apple is providing a consistent customer experience for enrolling, free trialing, auto-billing and canceling.

by pbreit 6y ago

black_puppydog 6y ago
* consistently user hostile
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  But it is consistent! I think some people have just drank too much koolaid sometimes. I completely agree with you that it is hostile and terribly anti consumer.
- thoraway1010 6y ago
  Except it is very user friendly. Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. They send you an email saying, here's what will be renewing soon, click here to cancel. I end up canceling about 80% of what would auto renew. And I hate the developers who are not upfront with the subscription price. If there is a free trial, what does it cost after. Even NY Times did this ($1/month in big print - fine print said something like $54/month after 1 month or maybe it was just in a link burried etc).
  - BiteCode_dev 6y ago
    Op state they have a broken leg, you say they should be happy not to have cancer.
  - nottorp 6y ago
    Just because neswpaper companies are utter assholes, it doesn't mean Apple can't do better. Like in subscriptions being opt IN not opt out.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      The subscription is opt-in. You have to explicitly choose the subscription, you get an alert, and you get an email before the subscription is charged.
  - prophesi 6y ago
    Wouldn't it be even better if companies couldn't have those nefarious business practices because they don't have the ability to auto-renew your subscriptions in the first place?
    - csunbird 6y ago
      Couldn't does not mean they will not, even if it is illegal. A lot of shady companies thinks customers will not chase after 5 dollars a month and even if they are right %50 of time, they make a pretty penny.
      - freeone3000 6y ago
        Compliance is pretty good here in Quebec - nearly no one offers a free trial, and those that do don't auto-renew.
        grandmczeb 6y ago
        Isn't MindGeek one of the Montreal "tech giants"? Their entire business model is free trials and hoping people don't cancel on auto-renew.
        freeone3000 6y ago
        But not in Montreal! They only do it where it's legal! Laws absolutely work.
        user5994461 6y ago
        I thought their main revenues were ads and cams?
  - xxpor 6y ago
    Try to cancel an apple sub after moving to android.
    - kemayo 6y ago
      It's pretty easy, so long as you're either using a Mac or are on Windows and able to install iTunes. The subscription-billing-reminder email includes a "review your subscription" link, which opens up Music / iTunes to the relevant buried section. Really, I feel it should be available through icloud.com, but I couldn't find it anywhere. That'd avoid any of these issues where you need access to a non-phone device. ...vaguely possible that you could get to it through the Apple Music app on Android. I can't easily check that from where I am now, though.
      - withinboredom 6y ago
        I moved to another continent, closed all my US accounts or left them empty. Apple considered me "delinquent" on my subscriptions and refused to let me switch my app store's country. It took being on the phone for over 8 hours before someone figured it out (I didn't know that was the issue) and they ended up writing off $12 to let me make the switch.
        dzhiurgis 6y ago
        Took me 30 minutes to convince someone of fingerprint temperature meter fraud that tricked my dad into 100 buck subscription. Apple prides into protecting customers, but when such issue appears you can’t do anything in the usual case deflection UI.
      - daemin 6y ago
        Provided that you have a Mac or a PC with Windows installed first. Then you'll have to sully your Windows installation by installing iTunes.
  - vmateixeira 6y ago
    Just because there's worse, does that mean bad is good?
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      There's something to be said for a floor on how bad it can be.
  - camgunz 6y ago
    Agree, also I think those tactics should be illegal, like all other dark patterns. This is a classic race to the bottom.
  - syshum 6y ago
    This is like saying China is a free nation because NK has worse authoritarianism
  - Semaphor 6y ago
    Okay, so what I’m reading is that in defense of apple not allowing a company to be user-friendly, you list companies that are even worse and use that as justification for apple to force developer to be somewhat user-unfriendly instead of fully. I honestly don’t even know what to say to that.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. I can do that online with a few clicks. (I do not subscribe to the NYT or WSJ). This is the same with most newspapers that are not the NYT or WSJ. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I can do that with a simple call. My rate was not a promo that required a two year contract. I know this because they said so in big letters on the contract, which they're legally required to do in most states... I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. TIL that if Apple didn't force trial periods to become auto-billed, revenue would somehow be higher. Instead of the more obvious result, which is that revenue is higher because people are being auto-billed after they forget to cancel. That is the business model of quite a few scams, and it's disappointing but not surprising that the Cooks-era Apple has embraced this business model.
    - zwily 6y ago
      I will (and have) pay more for an in-app Apple subscription just because of how easy it is to manage. I don’t think requiring a call is ever “simple”. Some people just prefer different things.
  - greggman3 6y ago
    It would be even more user friendly if it just popped up a message "You're free trial period has ended, would you like to subscribe?" People here seem to be claiming Apple will send you a message except it will be passive in that if you do nothing you're money will be taken. There are so many reasons I might miss that message, not the least of which is it being buried in all the other messages and notifications I get all day. Just make it opt-in instead of opt-out and suddenly it's super user friendly. In fact the companies can pause your subscription so if you don't get around to it the first time you interact after the free trial it's one click to subscribe and pick up where you left off.
- csunbird 6y ago
  What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached. If the app does not deliver what it claims with the subscription, I can trust Apple to dispute it. For example, there are a couple of apps that offer subscription and amazing deals out of in-app purchases, but I simply refuse to subscribe that kind of applications, because there are a lot of shady companies want to take your money.
  - wtetzner 6y ago
    > What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached. Sure, and that's great. But why can't subscriptions be opt-in after a free trial, instead of opt-out? They can still send an email with a "Subscribe" button instead of a "Cancel" button. I would argue that's much more user-friendly.
    - zepto 6y ago
      It would be, but Apple’s way is also way more user friendly than almost anyone else’s. Also, the opt-in vs opt-out could be configurable.
      - gamblor956 6y ago
        Opt-out is by definition not more user friendly than a default opt-in process. It is in fact quite user-hostile and is used by a number of scam companies.
        zepto 6y ago
        It sounds like you haven’t been reading along. Opt-out is only user hostile when it is used as a scam. Whether it is hostile depends on the implementation. Apple’s implementation is a friendly one. Firstly there is an email confirmation with a link to cancel, and secondly there is a single screen with all of the subscriptions aggregated and cancellable. If you are someone who generally purchases subscriptions to things you actually want, then opt-out is clearly more friendly. If you are someone who likes to try a bunch of stuff but isn’t likely to want to keep much of it, then you would likely prefer opt-in. Whether a given implementation of opt-out is a scam or not is orthogonal to whether it matches your personal style.
- t-writescode 6y ago
  Compare to the competition and historical dark patterns around subscriptions, this is very user friendly. I’m sure you’re familiar with gym membership cancellation? That’s not limited to gyms. This may not be the absolute best, but it’s way, way better than the worst.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Correct. Apple is providing a consistent customer experience for enrolling, free trialing, auto-billing and canceling.

by pbreit 6y ago

Correct. Apple is providing a consistent customer experience for enrolling, free trialing, auto-billing and canceling.

black_puppydog 6y ago

* consistently user hostile

stjohnswarts 6y ago
But it is consistent! I think some people have just drank too much koolaid sometimes. I completely agree with you that it is hostile and terribly anti consumer.
thoraway1010 6y ago
Except it is very user friendly. Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. They send you an email saying, here's what will be renewing soon, click here to cancel. I end up canceling about 80% of what would auto renew. And I hate the developers who are not upfront with the subscription price. If there is a free trial, what does it cost after. Even NY Times did this ($1/month in big print - fine print said something like $54/month after 1 month or maybe it was just in a link burried etc).
- BiteCode_dev 6y ago
  Op state they have a broken leg, you say they should be happy not to have cancer.
- nottorp 6y ago
  Just because neswpaper companies are utter assholes, it doesn't mean Apple can't do better. Like in subscriptions being opt IN not opt out.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    The subscription is opt-in. You have to explicitly choose the subscription, you get an alert, and you get an email before the subscription is charged.
- prophesi 6y ago
  Wouldn't it be even better if companies couldn't have those nefarious business practices because they don't have the ability to auto-renew your subscriptions in the first place?
  - csunbird 6y ago
    Couldn't does not mean they will not, even if it is illegal. A lot of shady companies thinks customers will not chase after 5 dollars a month and even if they are right %50 of time, they make a pretty penny.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      Compliance is pretty good here in Quebec - nearly no one offers a free trial, and those that do don't auto-renew.
      - grandmczeb 6y ago
        Isn't MindGeek one of the Montreal "tech giants"? Their entire business model is free trials and hoping people don't cancel on auto-renew.
        freeone3000 6y ago
        But not in Montreal! They only do it where it's legal! Laws absolutely work.
        user5994461 6y ago
        I thought their main revenues were ads and cams?
- xxpor 6y ago
  Try to cancel an apple sub after moving to android.
  - kemayo 6y ago
    It's pretty easy, so long as you're either using a Mac or are on Windows and able to install iTunes. The subscription-billing-reminder email includes a "review your subscription" link, which opens up Music / iTunes to the relevant buried section. Really, I feel it should be available through icloud.com, but I couldn't find it anywhere. That'd avoid any of these issues where you need access to a non-phone device. ...vaguely possible that you could get to it through the Apple Music app on Android. I can't easily check that from where I am now, though.
    - withinboredom 6y ago
      I moved to another continent, closed all my US accounts or left them empty. Apple considered me "delinquent" on my subscriptions and refused to let me switch my app store's country. It took being on the phone for over 8 hours before someone figured it out (I didn't know that was the issue) and they ended up writing off $12 to let me make the switch.
      - dzhiurgis 6y ago
        Took me 30 minutes to convince someone of fingerprint temperature meter fraud that tricked my dad into 100 buck subscription. Apple prides into protecting customers, but when such issue appears you can’t do anything in the usual case deflection UI.
    - daemin 6y ago
      Provided that you have a Mac or a PC with Windows installed first. Then you'll have to sully your Windows installation by installing iTunes.
- vmateixeira 6y ago
  Just because there's worse, does that mean bad is good?
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    There's something to be said for a floor on how bad it can be.
- camgunz 6y ago
  Agree, also I think those tactics should be illegal, like all other dark patterns. This is a classic race to the bottom.
- syshum 6y ago
  This is like saying China is a free nation because NK has worse authoritarianism
- Semaphor 6y ago
  Okay, so what I’m reading is that in defense of apple not allowing a company to be user-friendly, you list companies that are even worse and use that as justification for apple to force developer to be somewhat user-unfriendly instead of fully. I honestly don’t even know what to say to that.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. I can do that online with a few clicks. (I do not subscribe to the NYT or WSJ). This is the same with most newspapers that are not the NYT or WSJ. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I can do that with a simple call. My rate was not a promo that required a two year contract. I know this because they said so in big letters on the contract, which they're legally required to do in most states... I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. TIL that if Apple didn't force trial periods to become auto-billed, revenue would somehow be higher. Instead of the more obvious result, which is that revenue is higher because people are being auto-billed after they forget to cancel. That is the business model of quite a few scams, and it's disappointing but not surprising that the Cooks-era Apple has embraced this business model.
  - zwily 6y ago
    I will (and have) pay more for an in-app Apple subscription just because of how easy it is to manage. I don’t think requiring a call is ever “simple”. Some people just prefer different things.
- greggman3 6y ago
  It would be even more user friendly if it just popped up a message "You're free trial period has ended, would you like to subscribe?" People here seem to be claiming Apple will send you a message except it will be passive in that if you do nothing you're money will be taken. There are so many reasons I might miss that message, not the least of which is it being buried in all the other messages and notifications I get all day. Just make it opt-in instead of opt-out and suddenly it's super user friendly. In fact the companies can pause your subscription so if you don't get around to it the first time you interact after the free trial it's one click to subscribe and pick up where you left off.
csunbird 6y ago
What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached. If the app does not deliver what it claims with the subscription, I can trust Apple to dispute it. For example, there are a couple of apps that offer subscription and amazing deals out of in-app purchases, but I simply refuse to subscribe that kind of applications, because there are a lot of shady companies want to take your money.
- wtetzner 6y ago
  > What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached. Sure, and that's great. But why can't subscriptions be opt-in after a free trial, instead of opt-out? They can still send an email with a "Subscribe" button instead of a "Cancel" button. I would argue that's much more user-friendly.
  - zepto 6y ago
    It would be, but Apple’s way is also way more user friendly than almost anyone else’s. Also, the opt-in vs opt-out could be configurable.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      Opt-out is by definition not more user friendly than a default opt-in process. It is in fact quite user-hostile and is used by a number of scam companies.
      - zepto 6y ago
        It sounds like you haven’t been reading along. Opt-out is only user hostile when it is used as a scam. Whether it is hostile depends on the implementation. Apple’s implementation is a friendly one. Firstly there is an email confirmation with a link to cancel, and secondly there is a single screen with all of the subscriptions aggregated and cancellable. If you are someone who generally purchases subscriptions to things you actually want, then opt-out is clearly more friendly. If you are someone who likes to try a bunch of stuff but isn’t likely to want to keep much of it, then you would likely prefer opt-in. Whether a given implementation of opt-out is a scam or not is orthogonal to whether it matches your personal style.
t-writescode 6y ago
Compare to the competition and historical dark patterns around subscriptions, this is very user friendly. I’m sure you’re familiar with gym membership cancellation? That’s not limited to gyms. This may not be the absolute best, but it’s way, way better than the worst.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]