3 ms·

Taking an educated guess here, that the miner of the block which moved that transaction must be related to the owner of that wallet. Nobody would otherwise acce

Taking an educated guess here, that the miner of the block which moved that transaction must be related to the owner of that wallet. Nobody would otherwise accept such a low fee for a big transaction. Find the miner, you find the wallet owner.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Oh, I didn't know transaction value was known to transaction block-miners; that seems like a flaw. Assuming there's a bidding system, wouldn't transaction cost tend to zero? (Seems I need to review bitcoin transaction mining. Suggestions for a good resource on that?)
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  > Oh, I didn't know transaction value was known to transaction block-miners; that seems like a flaw. Transaction value is known to everyone, which is one of the whole primary points of Bitcoin.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    Yes, I knew that the transaction value (and source, sink) was known after processing it and putting it in the blockchain, just not that it was known by the miner processing the transaction before putting it on the blockchain - I assumed when "mining" a transaction that somehow the details would be hidden. Them being visible seems to raise interesting attacks, such as an individual being doxed and then unable to have their transaction verified/accepted. A sibling comment suggests Monero have addressed this. Edit: If 51% agree not to process any transactions for accounts holding >$1M worth of Btc can they steal financial value? Like a stock buyback but you pay zero to the holder and get the stock anyway.
    - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
      > Them being visible seems to raise interesting attacks, such as an individual being doxed and then unable to have their transaction verified/accepted. You have some fundamental misunderstandings in how bitcoin and bitcoin mining work. I'd suggest reading up on one of the links a sibling comment posted.
      - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
        In the interim, perhaps you could clear up a couple of questions, as you realise I've not studied the process for maybe 16years (I forget a lot in that time). Are these true? 1) Those processing transactions know which wallet they belong to before they choose to process it (this was the surprise to me presented here). 2) Wallets can be linked to people as the blockchain shows wallet holding value and transactions. (State actors can probably correlate with bank transactions; people in general can learn 'oh John Doe bought pizza from me using that wallet'). Appreciated.
- vmception 6y ago
  don't let that person confuse you. its not what happened at all.
- lawn 6y ago
  Yes in a way it's a flaw, or rather a misfeature. Monero solves this by hiding all transaction amounts (and sending/receiving address as well). The transaction fee isn't set by the amount but the size (a large and small number take the same space). A larger transaction can for example be created by combining many inputs (spending from multiple addresses in a single transaction). The fee isn't set by miners, but by the user who makes the transaction. If there's competition in the block, which there usually is in Bitoin, then you need to guess a large enough fee and if you get it wrong your transaction can get stuck and not confirm for a while.
- drdrey 6y ago
  https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook is a great resource to learn about this.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > Assuming there's a bidding system, wouldn't transaction cost tend to zero? Well, that depends. If there is extra space in blocks, then yes the fees tend towards zero (or very low costs, at least, zero is not exactly accurate, even in cases where there is extra block space) If blocks are "full" and there is more demand for this space, than there is extra space, then they do not tend towards zero, as transactors are bidding on a limited supply of space.
vmception 6y ago
Transaction fees are based on digital storage requirements. This transaction was 404 bytes, which is small. It doesn't matter the value exchanged, only the number of inputs and outputs and how much space they take. Yes, miners can read the metadata of a transaction, in transfers that includes the amount being moved, miners do not care about that. It is important to understand that "transactions" in this context is the same as a database transaction. There are many kind of transactions, some of which include the movement of bitcoin from one address to another.
jacquesm 6y ago
Quite a feat: to predict that you will be one to mine that particular block.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago

Oh, I didn't know transaction value was known to transaction block-miners; that seems like a flaw. Assuming there's a bidding system, wouldn't transaction cost tend to zero? (Seems I need to review bitcoin transaction mining. Suggestions for a good resource on that?)

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
> Oh, I didn't know transaction value was known to transaction block-miners; that seems like a flaw. Transaction value is known to everyone, which is one of the whole primary points of Bitcoin.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Yes, I knew that the transaction value (and source, sink) was known after processing it and putting it in the blockchain, just not that it was known by the miner processing the transaction before putting it on the blockchain - I assumed when "mining" a transaction that somehow the details would be hidden. Them being visible seems to raise interesting attacks, such as an individual being doxed and then unable to have their transaction verified/accepted. A sibling comment suggests Monero have addressed this. Edit: If 51% agree not to process any transactions for accounts holding >$1M worth of Btc can they steal financial value? Like a stock buyback but you pay zero to the holder and get the stock anyway.
  - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
    > Them being visible seems to raise interesting attacks, such as an individual being doxed and then unable to have their transaction verified/accepted. You have some fundamental misunderstandings in how bitcoin and bitcoin mining work. I'd suggest reading up on one of the links a sibling comment posted.
    - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
      In the interim, perhaps you could clear up a couple of questions, as you realise I've not studied the process for maybe 16years (I forget a lot in that time). Are these true? 1) Those processing transactions know which wallet they belong to before they choose to process it (this was the surprise to me presented here). 2) Wallets can be linked to people as the blockchain shows wallet holding value and transactions. (State actors can probably correlate with bank transactions; people in general can learn 'oh John Doe bought pizza from me using that wallet'). Appreciated.
vmception 6y ago
don't let that person confuse you. its not what happened at all.
lawn 6y ago
Yes in a way it's a flaw, or rather a misfeature. Monero solves this by hiding all transaction amounts (and sending/receiving address as well). The transaction fee isn't set by the amount but the size (a large and small number take the same space). A larger transaction can for example be created by combining many inputs (spending from multiple addresses in a single transaction). The fee isn't set by miners, but by the user who makes the transaction. If there's competition in the block, which there usually is in Bitoin, then you need to guess a large enough fee and if you get it wrong your transaction can get stuck and not confirm for a while.
drdrey 6y ago
https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook is a great resource to learn about this.
stale2002 6y ago
> Assuming there's a bidding system, wouldn't transaction cost tend to zero? Well, that depends. If there is extra space in blocks, then yes the fees tend towards zero (or very low costs, at least, zero is not exactly accurate, even in cases where there is extra block space) If blocks are "full" and there is more demand for this space, than there is extra space, then they do not tend towards zero, as transactors are bidding on a limited supply of space.

vmception 6y ago

Transaction fees are based on digital storage requirements. This transaction was 404 bytes, which is small. It doesn't matter the value exchanged, only the number of inputs and outputs and how much space they take. Yes, miners can read the metadata of a transaction, in transfers that includes the amount being moved, miners do not care about that. It is important to understand that "transactions" in this context is the same as a database transaction. There are many kind of transactions, some of which include the movement of bitcoin from one address to another.

jacquesm 6y ago

Quite a feat: to predict that you will be one to mine that particular block.