6 ms·

This has always struck me as one of the more blatant and out-in-the-open financial inequalities in this country.

cryptonector 6y ago
At least we don't have hyperinflation. That's even worse for the poor. Though to be sure I agree with you. We really need to fix this, but it's not going to happen. Right now we're paying an enormous -unprecedented?- political attention tax that is starving lots of important issues of oxygen.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Inflation doesn't affect the poor so long as wages keep up with inflation. If you don't have money, there's nothing to inflate.
  - samatman 6y ago
    They did say hyperinflation. Characteristic of hyperinflation, is that nothing keeps up with it. Forget wages keeping up: your very paycheck is worth less at the end of two weeks than it was when you received it.
  - gruez 6y ago
    > Inflation doesn't affect the poor so long as wages keep up with inflation Does it? In an inflationary environment the status quo is that your wages shrink. I guess it’s better than holding cash because you can renegotiate your wages back, but I don’t think rich people have most of their assets as cash.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      > In an inflationary environment the status quo is that your wages shrink. The US is a classical inflationary environment and wages have kept pace with inflation forever. Indeed, inflation only, and intentionally, punishes those who hoard cash.
      - gruez 6y ago
        Not always, depending on your timeframe. eg. if you look at https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/United_States_real_wages_%28red%2C_in_constant_2017_dollars%29.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/United_S... there’s about 2 decades where the real wage went down.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        arcticbull 6y ago
        Fair enough. I would note that chart begins prior to ending the gold standard in 1971, and it has tracked very well since 1995. I was off-base when I said "forever." I should have said in recent history.
  - ivanche 6y ago
    Your comment makes me think you weren't even close to hyperinflation, ever. Sincerely, a guy who survived 313 000 000 % inflation per month.
vxNsr 6y ago
It’s also a fake one. As the other commenter said, the credit card system came about bec cash was very expensive to use for stores. They were passing along those costs to consumers, the fact that that’s now inverted by some stores (cash discounts) is only doable bec of the prevalence of credit cards. Stores need to accept cash regardless, so there’s still some minimal added costs to using cash, but even with the offered discount it’s less than the credit cards... however if stores stopped accepting credit cards they would quickly find themselves drowning in the same costs that credit cards were invented to avoid.
- ballenf 6y ago
  Germany is still way more cash-based and you see less consolidation of businesses into large chains than in the US. I'm not sure I buy "drowning in the same costs". I think there's something more akin to a prisoner's dilemma here.
  - ivan_gammel 6y ago
    Germany is cash-based because of consumer behavior, not because costs are somehow lower. With corona, e-Commerce and services like SumUp more widespread Germany will inevitably catch up with other countries.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      In Denmark, the majority of shops have little signs "Due to Covid-19, please pay by card or phone" or sometime "Due to Covid-19, cash is not accepted". On a recent trip to Germany, I didn't see a single such sign. Germany is changing gradually, perhaps due to the EU's limits on the fees Visa and MasterCard can change, but Covid-19 doesn't seem to have much effect.
      - ivan_gammel 6y ago
        I live in Berlin and recommendations to pay by card can be seen in many places with preference for contactless payment. In fact, share of non-cash payments visibly increased here and surveys show that German attitude is already changing.

At least we don't have hyperinflation. That's even worse for the poor. Though to be sure I agree with you. We really need to fix this, but it's not going to happen. Right now we're paying an enormous -unprecedented?- political attention tax that is starving lots of important issues of oxygen.

arcticbull 6y ago
Inflation doesn't affect the poor so long as wages keep up with inflation. If you don't have money, there's nothing to inflate.
- samatman 6y ago
  They did say hyperinflation. Characteristic of hyperinflation, is that nothing keeps up with it. Forget wages keeping up: your very paycheck is worth less at the end of two weeks than it was when you received it.
- gruez 6y ago
  > Inflation doesn't affect the poor so long as wages keep up with inflation Does it? In an inflationary environment the status quo is that your wages shrink. I guess it’s better than holding cash because you can renegotiate your wages back, but I don’t think rich people have most of their assets as cash.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    > In an inflationary environment the status quo is that your wages shrink. The US is a classical inflationary environment and wages have kept pace with inflation forever. Indeed, inflation only, and intentionally, punishes those who hoard cash.
    - gruez 6y ago
      Not always, depending on your timeframe. eg. if you look at https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/United_States_real_wages_%28red%2C_in_constant_2017_dollars%29.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/United_S... there’s about 2 decades where the real wage went down.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        Fair enough. I would note that chart begins prior to ending the gold standard in 1971, and it has tracked very well since 1995. I was off-base when I said "forever." I should have said in recent history.
- ivanche 6y ago
  Your comment makes me think you weren't even close to hyperinflation, ever. Sincerely, a guy who survived 313 000 000 % inflation per month.

vxNsr 6y ago

It’s also a fake one. As the other commenter said, the credit card system came about bec cash was very expensive to use for stores. They were passing along those costs to consumers, the fact that that’s now inverted by some stores (cash discounts) is only doable bec of the prevalence of credit cards. Stores need to accept cash regardless, so there’s still some minimal added costs to using cash, but even with the offered discount it’s less than the credit cards... however if stores stopped accepting credit cards they would quickly find themselves drowning in the same costs that credit cards were invented to avoid.

ballenf 6y ago
Germany is still way more cash-based and you see less consolidation of businesses into large chains than in the US. I'm not sure I buy "drowning in the same costs". I think there's something more akin to a prisoner's dilemma here.
- ivan_gammel 6y ago
  Germany is cash-based because of consumer behavior, not because costs are somehow lower. With corona, e-Commerce and services like SumUp more widespread Germany will inevitably catch up with other countries.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    In Denmark, the majority of shops have little signs "Due to Covid-19, please pay by card or phone" or sometime "Due to Covid-19, cash is not accepted". On a recent trip to Germany, I didn't see a single such sign. Germany is changing gradually, perhaps due to the EU's limits on the fees Visa and MasterCard can change, but Covid-19 doesn't seem to have much effect.
    - ivan_gammel 6y ago
      I live in Berlin and recommendations to pay by card can be seen in many places with preference for contactless payment. In fact, share of non-cash payments visibly increased here and surveys show that German attitude is already changing.