6 ms·

True, also in many EU countries credit cards do matter much less. For example in Germany card payment is normally done with EC cards (girocard,vpay,etc), includ

True, also in many EU countries credit cards do matter much less. For example in Germany card payment is normally done with EC cards (girocard,vpay,etc), including NFC based payment. For long term recurring payments SEPA is common, for one time payments simple bank transactions over online banking. This includes online payment for services like Amazon. Oh an not to large local payments (e.g. restaurant) are also very often done in cash. Credit cards are only needed for a German person in two cases: Travel and non EU online shops (but which often have pay pal through which you can use your EC card!!). EDIT: Warning in some German cities (e.g. Berlin) you will find a lot of cash only restaurants, mostly due to high costs of payment terminals not being worth it due to most people paying with cash anyway. Like the a local restaurant from where I live they bought a payment terminal it broke in some stupid accident no insurance want's to cover so now it's back to cash only.

arachnid92 6y ago
I just want to present a counterpoint to your claim that in the EU, CCs matter less: there are countries in the EU like Sweden where cash is virtually non-existent. Basically everything is card-based here, I've even seen panhandlers who accept electronic payments in Stockholm.
- PeterisP 6y ago
  Card != CC. The point is that in EU there's less motivation to use credit cards than in USA because the situation is better for payment cards that are not credit cards. If you refer to Sweden, I believe that the split there is that something like 40% of the cards are credit cards, and the majority are not.
  - carlhjerpe 6y ago
    As a Swede, I thought the CC number would be lower. Most people my age never had a credit card. I do have a Visa DC and a MC CC for redundancy if my bank is down, most people I know doesn't even get why.
    - kzrdude 6y ago
      I have a DC and cc from the same bank.. not sure if it gives much of any redundancy, but it was the best deal on a cc I could find.
      - zmk_ 6y ago
        In Sweden, the best CC deals are the petrol station branded CCs (Shell/Circle K) as they both give you cash backs, have some insurance, have the standard grace period, and are "free".
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      You are correct, credit card transactions are about 18% by number and 25% by value. https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/statistics/payments-notes-and-coins/payments/ https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/statistics/payments-notes-and-... (Seriously, people, these kind of statistics are extremely easy to find. No need to make them up!)
  - incompatible 6y ago
    Likewise in Australia. The only difficulty I've found using a debit card in recent years is when renting a car: with a debit card, they generally want to put a "hold" on the account for a few hundred dollars. I can't get a credit card anyway since my income isn't high enough, and I wouldn't want one because they charge annual fees in Australia. Banks in Australia run their own payments system, so it's possible to pay by card without going through Visa / Mastercard. Some cards issued by banks don't even have the Visa / Mastercard affiliation, but I think the Visa / Mastercard debit feature is needed it you want to make card-not-present transactions online.
    - mcbain 6y ago
      There are a number of credit cards in Australia that do not charge annual fees. Many require being linked to an active transaction account, but not all. They generally don't have any kind of linked reward points structure, but that's not a huge loss as most of those got nerfed after the ACCC changes a while back (see elsewhere in these comments).
      - incompatible 6y ago
        I see there are some of these around these days, perhaps it wasn't so common last time I was looking which was at least 5 years ago. But at this point, there doesn't seem to be much benefit in having a credit card. I'd also be unlikely to qualify for one, either due to not having a stable income of $20k plus per year, or because I'm not a permanent visa holder in Australia, despite living here for over a decade.
- simias 6y ago
  Paying by card is common, paying using a Credit Card not necessarily. I'm French and I'm semi-ashamed to admit that when at a store abroad the clerk asked me "debit or credit?" for payment I had to ask him to explain to me what this quaint exotic incantation meant. When I finally understood how that system worked I also finally understood this weird trope in American movies where a character has a half a dozen credit cards in their wallet, and they burn through those as if it were free money for some reason. That never made any sense to me up until that point.
  - wil421 6y ago
    Debit card (bank card) transactions in the US require a PIN. Credit cards require a signature but most gas stations require a zip code. It would be nice if the US had PINs like Europe does for credit cards. I make around $1500-$2000 a year in cash back from my credit cards and $195 in fees. 6% back for groceries, 3% for gas, 3% on online shopping, and 3% for restaurants. All my household utilities and bills are run through my Delta card to collect miles and a $200 yearly voucher.
    - ss7pro 6y ago
      I have six CC , my total AF for them is $2500. Every year I got at least $6500 back from using those cards. Not to mention travel insurance, car rental insurance and purchase insurance which comes with those cards and it's worth at least $600 a year.
    - techsupporter 6y ago
      > It would be nice if the US had PINs like Europe does for credit cards. Some cards do offer this feature, all issued by credit unions as I recall. Spokane Teachers Credit Union, First Technology Federal Credit Union, and State Department Federal Credit Union are the three I know off the top of my head. Target's MasterCard version of its REDcard also has a PIN but you cannot apply for that card directly. (I have cards from each of them, except SDFCU, and have considered getting that one simply because it would be a chip-and-PIN Visa card and I don't have that particular combination.)
- fragmede 6y ago
  It's a bit balkanized, with Swish taking the place of Venmo in Sweden, and other local variations elsewhere.
Cu3PO42 6y ago
Hi, fellow German here. I know that "EC card" means "girocard" in the common vernacular, but if we're talking about payment systems, I think it's important to be correct. These cards used to be called EC card, however MasterCard now has all the rights to the EC brand. In fact debit MasterCards with EC branding are starting to pop up now. You either want to speak of "girocard" which is our own payment network or "debit cards", which includes the likes of Maestro V-Pay, but also some Visa and MasterCards. In the same sense, you don't need a credit card for most online shops, you just need a Visa/MC (some will only take credit, but most will take debit). And as for PayPal: they don't use your "EC card" either. PayPal offers to process the charge by way of direct debit, which is (now) a SEPA process and totally unrelated to any debit or credit card you may have. It just so happens that girocards list your SEPA account info. /rant. Sorry, this is just one of those things that gets me.
tosers4 6y ago
Here in Portugal its "Multibanco" network that is used. That's why "MB way" got that "send money thorugh phone numbers" in 2014, and worked with every bank without commissions. Very few people even have credit cards. Places like restaurants and groceries still usual demand something like "minimum 5/10€ to use card", but those signs are disappearing.

arachnid92 6y ago

I just want to present a counterpoint to your claim that in the EU, CCs matter less: there are countries in the EU like Sweden where cash is virtually non-existent. Basically everything is card-based here, I've even seen panhandlers who accept electronic payments in Stockholm.

PeterisP 6y ago
Card != CC. The point is that in EU there's less motivation to use credit cards than in USA because the situation is better for payment cards that are not credit cards. If you refer to Sweden, I believe that the split there is that something like 40% of the cards are credit cards, and the majority are not.
- carlhjerpe 6y ago
  As a Swede, I thought the CC number would be lower. Most people my age never had a credit card. I do have a Visa DC and a MC CC for redundancy if my bank is down, most people I know doesn't even get why.
  - kzrdude 6y ago
    I have a DC and cc from the same bank.. not sure if it gives much of any redundancy, but it was the best deal on a cc I could find.
    - zmk_ 6y ago
      In Sweden, the best CC deals are the petrol station branded CCs (Shell/Circle K) as they both give you cash backs, have some insurance, have the standard grace period, and are "free".
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    You are correct, credit card transactions are about 18% by number and 25% by value. https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/statistics/payments-notes-and-coins/payments/ https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/statistics/payments-notes-and-... (Seriously, people, these kind of statistics are extremely easy to find. No need to make them up!)
- incompatible 6y ago
  Likewise in Australia. The only difficulty I've found using a debit card in recent years is when renting a car: with a debit card, they generally want to put a "hold" on the account for a few hundred dollars. I can't get a credit card anyway since my income isn't high enough, and I wouldn't want one because they charge annual fees in Australia. Banks in Australia run their own payments system, so it's possible to pay by card without going through Visa / Mastercard. Some cards issued by banks don't even have the Visa / Mastercard affiliation, but I think the Visa / Mastercard debit feature is needed it you want to make card-not-present transactions online.
  - mcbain 6y ago
    There are a number of credit cards in Australia that do not charge annual fees. Many require being linked to an active transaction account, but not all. They generally don't have any kind of linked reward points structure, but that's not a huge loss as most of those got nerfed after the ACCC changes a while back (see elsewhere in these comments).
    - incompatible 6y ago
      I see there are some of these around these days, perhaps it wasn't so common last time I was looking which was at least 5 years ago. But at this point, there doesn't seem to be much benefit in having a credit card. I'd also be unlikely to qualify for one, either due to not having a stable income of $20k plus per year, or because I'm not a permanent visa holder in Australia, despite living here for over a decade.
simias 6y ago
Paying by card is common, paying using a Credit Card not necessarily. I'm French and I'm semi-ashamed to admit that when at a store abroad the clerk asked me "debit or credit?" for payment I had to ask him to explain to me what this quaint exotic incantation meant. When I finally understood how that system worked I also finally understood this weird trope in American movies where a character has a half a dozen credit cards in their wallet, and they burn through those as if it were free money for some reason. That never made any sense to me up until that point.
- wil421 6y ago
  Debit card (bank card) transactions in the US require a PIN. Credit cards require a signature but most gas stations require a zip code. It would be nice if the US had PINs like Europe does for credit cards. I make around $1500-$2000 a year in cash back from my credit cards and $195 in fees. 6% back for groceries, 3% for gas, 3% on online shopping, and 3% for restaurants. All my household utilities and bills are run through my Delta card to collect miles and a $200 yearly voucher.
  - ss7pro 6y ago
    I have six CC , my total AF for them is $2500. Every year I got at least $6500 back from using those cards. Not to mention travel insurance, car rental insurance and purchase insurance which comes with those cards and it's worth at least $600 a year.
  - techsupporter 6y ago
    > It would be nice if the US had PINs like Europe does for credit cards. Some cards do offer this feature, all issued by credit unions as I recall. Spokane Teachers Credit Union, First Technology Federal Credit Union, and State Department Federal Credit Union are the three I know off the top of my head. Target's MasterCard version of its REDcard also has a PIN but you cannot apply for that card directly. (I have cards from each of them, except SDFCU, and have considered getting that one simply because it would be a chip-and-PIN Visa card and I don't have that particular combination.)
fragmede 6y ago
It's a bit balkanized, with Swish taking the place of Venmo in Sweden, and other local variations elsewhere.

Cu3PO42 6y ago

Hi, fellow German here. I know that "EC card" means "girocard" in the common vernacular, but if we're talking about payment systems, I think it's important to be correct. These cards used to be called EC card, however MasterCard now has all the rights to the EC brand. In fact debit MasterCards with EC branding are starting to pop up now. You either want to speak of "girocard" which is our own payment network or "debit cards", which includes the likes of Maestro V-Pay, but also some Visa and MasterCards. In the same sense, you don't need a credit card for most online shops, you just need a Visa/MC (some will only take credit, but most will take debit). And as for PayPal: they don't use your "EC card" either. PayPal offers to process the charge by way of direct debit, which is (now) a SEPA process and totally unrelated to any debit or credit card you may have. It just so happens that girocards list your SEPA account info. /rant. Sorry, this is just one of those things that gets me.

tosers4 6y ago

Here in Portugal its "Multibanco" network that is used. That's why "MB way" got that "send money thorugh phone numbers" in 2014, and worked with every bank without commissions. Very few people even have credit cards. Places like restaurants and groceries still usual demand something like "minimum 5/10€ to use card", but those signs are disappearing.