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Have you considered that they took those steps because they felt threatened? NATO influence has been expanding eastwards for decades. Russia wouldn't have annex

Have you considered that they took those steps because they felt threatened? NATO influence has been expanding eastwards for decades. Russia wouldn't have annexed Crimea unless they felt there was a real chance that Ukraine would host NATO bases and they would lose access to their Crimean naval base- which were absolutely real possibilities. Russia is surrounded by NATO bases. I wonder how the US would react to Mexico hosting Russian troops and weapons...

drumhead 6y ago
Threatend by what? I cant recall NATO invading or annexing the territory of a sovreign nation. Russian on the other hand, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovkia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia to name but a few European nations that have felt Russias "non-threatening behaviour". Nations voluntarily join NATO, because having seen Russian agression in neighboring states it makes them feel safer. If Russia doesnt like that maybe they should stop their aggressive behaviour.
- gdy 6y ago
  "I cant recall NATO invading or annexing the territory of a sovreign nation." Funny you can't recall NATO bombing and partitioning Serbia. Funny you can't recall NATO members invading Iraq. Funny you can't recall NATO members bombing Libya. Funny you can't recall NATO members occupying parts of Syria. And most likely you haven't even heard that supreme NATO commander in Europe ordered to attack Russian forces in Prishtina [0]. "Russian on the other hand, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovkia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia" if you've decided to talk about WW2 and its aftermath, don't forget that Germany and countries which joined its war against the USSR -- Italy, Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria, are all NATO members now. This invasion from the West cost the USSR 26 million lives. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark#Pristina_International_Airport_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark#Pristina_Internat...
  - free_rms 6y ago
    But, you see, there are very narrow technical explanations for all of those things. We're actually the good guys. We would never drone-strike a general who we're not at war with, while on his way to a peace conference to help fix countries that we broke in the first place. That's not in our national character.
  - mthoms 6y ago
    Your point is valid, but the parent said "NATO" and you moved the goal posts to "any country that is a member of NATO". That's a bit disingenuous.
    - gdy 6y ago
      "disingenuous" I disagree. Firstly, I explicitly wrote 'NATO members' in all cases except Serbia, where it was NATO. Secondly, the driving force behind NATO is the US and it's mostly the US who bombs or invade other countries and it's the US who puts its military bases in the new NATO members. NATO expansion de facto means the expansion of American military infrastructure. Thirdly, NATO members feel that they are protected from the retaliation when they attack other countries individually. Do you think Turkey would've been that agressive, invading Syria, if it didn't know that NATO will protect it from a certain Syrian ally?
      - mthoms 6y ago
        >I explicitly wrote 'NATO members' You did. But you did it in a very snarky and condescending way that implied the parent commenter was an idiot. Frankly, you sound a little too "wound up" to have a civilized discussion with. Even if you do have a couple semi-valid points. Edit: You know what? I just glanced at your comment history. It's chock full of the same childishness. I'm going to disengage here.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        gdy 6y ago
        It's puzzling that you've decided to write this after reading a measured and polite comment with what I think are reasonable arguments.
        lovelyviking 6y ago
        >Frankly, you sound a little too "wound up" to have a civilized discussion with. Even if you do have a couple semi-valid points. Very healthy reaction to russian propaganda. They usually act in a semi-valid points to slowly deliver 'lie-point' that have nothing to do with the reality. It's difficult to catch them with direct lie, but you see their signature in a mile after some experience. I went to look for the history of this guy just after reading one-line comment and sure enough I have found more examples of what I've suspected. >It's chock full of the same childishness Here I think, while it's indeed childishness, the threat of it not childish at all and I think underestimated. It's very dangerous propaganda weapon that proven to work well for Russian aggression for some time now. I wish people like you would take that into account and see threat for what it is.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - literallycancer 6y ago
    I don't know about you, but me personally, I'm on the team "don't invade me again please" and will support the efforts of whichever aligned country is helping prevent that. If it's the same country that's making a mess elsewhere, too bad. At least people who disagree with the government don't get shot randomly here in Europe. And obviously, aligned troops stationed somewhere can't make conflict more likely. The only thing it might do is create a conflict in a situation where you'd just lose otherwise. I'll take a conflict over occupation. Oh and get the fuck out of Ukraine already, will you?
    - gdy 6y ago
      "If it's the same country that's making a mess elsewhere, too bad." This reminds me about Poland and Hungary taking part in dismemberment of Czechoslovakia. People there probably were saying something similar to 'too bad'. "And obviously, aligned troops stationed somewhere can't make conflict more likely. " The US was about to take a chance and start WW3 when the USSR was going to put nuclear missiles on Cuba as a countermeasure to the US putting missiles in Turkey. "Oh and get the fuck out of Ukraine already, will you?" I don't think that will happen. Russia was okay with the newly independent Ukraine keeping stolen Crimea and with paying enormous rent for Russian fleet base there until the US 'midwifed' a coup that deposed a democratically elected president and the threat of NATO expansion into the Ukraine became imminent.
- pasabagi 6y ago
  I think the 'color revolutions' freaked out a lot of authoritarian states - especially russia, since they were in Russia's backyard.
elsjaako 6y ago
> I wonder how the US would react to Mexico hosting Russian troops and weapons... I imagine if they put missiles on cuba, some kind of crisis might happen.
- foobarian 6y ago
  Yeah the US might have to counter by making a strong statement and maybe put missiles in... eh, Turkey should do!
  - gdy 6y ago
    You got the sequence wrong, American missiles in Turkey were first.
nradov 6y ago
Fortunately Russia can no longer afford to project power into the Western hemisphere any more (beyond token bomber flights and naval freedom of navigation exercises). They struggled just to sustain a tiny expeditionary force in Syria, and the logistics train was much shorter there than Mexico.
lumberingjack 6y ago
All Russia really wants to do is stay good old-fashioned Russia they're concerned that West is going to contribute to their culture and they don't want that "degeneracy" to happen. TV in Russia constantly runs commercials warning citizens about American liberalism making kids gay
- gdy 6y ago
  We also have pet bears that play balalayka while we drink vodka.

drumhead 6y ago

Threatend by what? I cant recall NATO invading or annexing the territory of a sovreign nation. Russian on the other hand, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovkia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia to name but a few European nations that have felt Russias "non-threatening behaviour". Nations voluntarily join NATO, because having seen Russian agression in neighboring states it makes them feel safer. If Russia doesnt like that maybe they should stop their aggressive behaviour.

gdy 6y ago
"I cant recall NATO invading or annexing the territory of a sovreign nation." Funny you can't recall NATO bombing and partitioning Serbia. Funny you can't recall NATO members invading Iraq. Funny you can't recall NATO members bombing Libya. Funny you can't recall NATO members occupying parts of Syria. And most likely you haven't even heard that supreme NATO commander in Europe ordered to attack Russian forces in Prishtina [0]. "Russian on the other hand, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovkia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia" if you've decided to talk about WW2 and its aftermath, don't forget that Germany and countries which joined its war against the USSR -- Italy, Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria, are all NATO members now. This invasion from the West cost the USSR 26 million lives. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark#Pristina_International_Airport_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark#Pristina_Internat...
- free_rms 6y ago
  But, you see, there are very narrow technical explanations for all of those things. We're actually the good guys. We would never drone-strike a general who we're not at war with, while on his way to a peace conference to help fix countries that we broke in the first place. That's not in our national character.
- mthoms 6y ago
  Your point is valid, but the parent said "NATO" and you moved the goal posts to "any country that is a member of NATO". That's a bit disingenuous.
  - gdy 6y ago
    "disingenuous" I disagree. Firstly, I explicitly wrote 'NATO members' in all cases except Serbia, where it was NATO. Secondly, the driving force behind NATO is the US and it's mostly the US who bombs or invade other countries and it's the US who puts its military bases in the new NATO members. NATO expansion de facto means the expansion of American military infrastructure. Thirdly, NATO members feel that they are protected from the retaliation when they attack other countries individually. Do you think Turkey would've been that agressive, invading Syria, if it didn't know that NATO will protect it from a certain Syrian ally?
    - mthoms 6y ago
      >I explicitly wrote 'NATO members' You did. But you did it in a very snarky and condescending way that implied the parent commenter was an idiot. Frankly, you sound a little too "wound up" to have a civilized discussion with. Even if you do have a couple semi-valid points. Edit: You know what? I just glanced at your comment history. It's chock full of the same childishness. I'm going to disengage here.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - gdy 6y ago
        It's puzzling that you've decided to write this after reading a measured and polite comment with what I think are reasonable arguments.
      - lovelyviking 6y ago
        >Frankly, you sound a little too "wound up" to have a civilized discussion with. Even if you do have a couple semi-valid points. Very healthy reaction to russian propaganda. They usually act in a semi-valid points to slowly deliver 'lie-point' that have nothing to do with the reality. It's difficult to catch them with direct lie, but you see their signature in a mile after some experience. I went to look for the history of this guy just after reading one-line comment and sure enough I have found more examples of what I've suspected. >It's chock full of the same childishness Here I think, while it's indeed childishness, the threat of it not childish at all and I think underestimated. It's very dangerous propaganda weapon that proven to work well for Russian aggression for some time now. I wish people like you would take that into account and see threat for what it is.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- literallycancer 6y ago
  I don't know about you, but me personally, I'm on the team "don't invade me again please" and will support the efforts of whichever aligned country is helping prevent that. If it's the same country that's making a mess elsewhere, too bad. At least people who disagree with the government don't get shot randomly here in Europe. And obviously, aligned troops stationed somewhere can't make conflict more likely. The only thing it might do is create a conflict in a situation where you'd just lose otherwise. I'll take a conflict over occupation. Oh and get the fuck out of Ukraine already, will you?
  - gdy 6y ago
    "If it's the same country that's making a mess elsewhere, too bad." This reminds me about Poland and Hungary taking part in dismemberment of Czechoslovakia. People there probably were saying something similar to 'too bad'. "And obviously, aligned troops stationed somewhere can't make conflict more likely. " The US was about to take a chance and start WW3 when the USSR was going to put nuclear missiles on Cuba as a countermeasure to the US putting missiles in Turkey. "Oh and get the fuck out of Ukraine already, will you?" I don't think that will happen. Russia was okay with the newly independent Ukraine keeping stolen Crimea and with paying enormous rent for Russian fleet base there until the US 'midwifed' a coup that deposed a democratically elected president and the threat of NATO expansion into the Ukraine became imminent.
pasabagi 6y ago
I think the 'color revolutions' freaked out a lot of authoritarian states - especially russia, since they were in Russia's backyard.

elsjaako 6y ago

> I wonder how the US would react to Mexico hosting Russian troops and weapons... I imagine if they put missiles on cuba, some kind of crisis might happen.

foobarian 6y ago
Yeah the US might have to counter by making a strong statement and maybe put missiles in... eh, Turkey should do!
- gdy 6y ago
  You got the sequence wrong, American missiles in Turkey were first.

nradov 6y ago

Fortunately Russia can no longer afford to project power into the Western hemisphere any more (beyond token bomber flights and naval freedom of navigation exercises). They struggled just to sustain a tiny expeditionary force in Syria, and the logistics train was much shorter there than Mexico.

lumberingjack 6y ago

All Russia really wants to do is stay good old-fashioned Russia they're concerned that West is going to contribute to their culture and they don't want that "degeneracy" to happen. TV in Russia constantly runs commercials warning citizens about American liberalism making kids gay

gdy 6y ago
We also have pet bears that play balalayka while we drink vodka.