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I haven't watched Stefan in a long time, is he now producing content in the same register as David Duke & Richard Spencer ? It did not seem to be the case a few
by fvdessen 6y ago
I haven't watched Stefan in a long time, is he now producing content in the same register as David Duke & Richard Spencer ? It did not seem to be the case a few years ago.
- swivelmaster 6y agoHe's always been pretty awful and white-supremacist-adjacent.
- nailer 6y agoThis "adjacent" concept has no meaning. Paraphrasing a point I made on Twitter recently: - Richard Spencer: evil. Created 'alt right' movement. - Ben Shapiro: called 'alt right' because he's right wing - Joe Rogan: called 'alt right' because he talked to Ben - Bernie Sanders supporters: called 'alt right' because Joe endorsed Bernie. Ergo: by this logic Karl Marx could be considered 'alt right' Molyneaux might be awful, he might be fine. But the argument one way or the other must be made on his own merits, not those around him. ---- Edit: Replying to dralley due to rate limit:" I have included an example where there are four links. But 'adjacent' is a plainly silly idea if there is only one link. If 'adjacent' being silly isn't already obvious, you may be very left wing (since 'adjacent' seems to be a popular argument on the left). So consider: former KKK member Robert Byrd is in a photo being friendly with Hillary Clinton [1]. Is Hillary Clinton alt-right adjacent? Plainly Hillary Clinton is not alt-right adjacent. That argument would be absurd to make. Guilt by association is evil. To determine whether Stefan Molyneux's ideas are good or bad, we should consider Stefan Molyneux's ideas. Not anyone else's. You've included a video of Stefan Molyneux speaking. That's good - we can find out what he has to say for himself. What someone else has to say is irrelevant. [1] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-byrd-photo-klan/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-byrd-photo-klan/
- absurdturd 6y agoHe didn't "talk" to Ben, he broadcast Ben's ideas to millions of listeners (the majority of which happen to be white).
- toxik 6y agoJoe Rogan is now alt right? That is a quixotic ambition. Let the fools make fools of themselves. When there are stupid ideas proposed in the podcast, I just laugh at it or talk to somebody about it. As an example, I listened to one of those white supremacy former academics, can’t remember who, and he quips midway through the lecture that Western society developed faster because... we are unique in having a sense of shame. I kid you not. It doesn’t take a neurosurgeon to detect bullshit. Rogan talks to interesting guests all the time, if you label him adversarial, you will have rejected a lot of people.
- absurdturd 6y agoDidn't say he was alt right, but he doesn't use his massive platform responsibly. There's a difference between interviewing a presidential candidate and interviewing a white supremacist.
- nailer 6y agoAre you saying Joe interviewed a white supremacist? Who?
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y agoWhat is wrong with that? He did the same with Sanders and they were both interesting.
- absurdturd 6y agoI mean there's the problem right there — you're talking about Bernie Sanders and Ben Shapiro as if they're two people equally deserving of equal space on an enormous platform of listeners.
- 9HZZRfNlpR 6y agoWell yes.. I don't see why not. He brings a lot of different crowd, I'm not an American so I don't care about your childish bipartisan politics, but him talking to candidates gave me a better overview than watching 48h of your news channels.
- dralley 6y agoYou act like the chain is like 6 links long - it is not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ6BZzQeCQ&t=14m01s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ6BZzQeCQ&t=14m01s Jarod Taylor is very clearly a white supremacist, or as he calls himself, a "racialist". That's one link. Also about 2 minutes after the timestamp in that clip, Stefan basically admits to being a white nationalist himself, anyway.
- CJefferson 6y agoMolyneaux: The primary purpose of feminism is to lower white birthrates.
- swivelmaster 6y agohttps://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Extremes https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-...
- nailer 6y agoNo. All the examples except the Karl Marx one are ridiculous, yet you can find ample evidence of them all via Twitter. Is there a logical fallacy for 'adjacent?' It probably falls under straw man but it might have a specific name.
- Edd314159 6y agoI used to listen to Stefan Molyneux about 10 years ago because he had some interesting views on free market economics. Now I look him up on Wikipedia and find out he's turned into a white nationalist. What the hell happened?
- agoristen 6y agoWhat happened is wikipedia turned into a leftist propaganda outlet.
- evanlivingston 6y agoPerhaps there is an association between strongly supporting principles of free markets and problematic ethics.
- ur-whale 6y agoAka, I'll hitch my political wagon to any passing train as long as it gets me there.
- basch 6y agoOr freedoms to be bad. Freedoms to say bad things, freedoms to lie, freedoms to pollute the environment, freedoms to sell harmful things. They all share a "for my benefit, the collateral damage inflicted on others be damned" element.
- sparkie 6y agoThere is a strong association between free market principles and the principle of non-aggression. Others advocate that it is acceptable to use violent aggressive force against people who do not conform to your opinion of how things should be governed. Tell me where the problematic ethics are again? (FWIW, I don't watch any of the people mentioned above and have only heard of the first, so I am not here to defend them or what they may have said. I'm only defending the Non-aggression principle, which implies that markets are free.)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- hartator 6y agoYes, I don't remember Stefan Molyneux saying anything racist. Can someone share an example?
- user982 6y agohttps://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Causality1 6y agoWow that guy's an idiot. He actually claims the Iraq War was a failure because Iraqis have IQs in the 80s and are therefore incapable of accepting democracy. Racism aside, if you've done even a bit of reading on IQ you know it's been rising for decades if not longer. His Jeffersonian Democracy was built by people with an IQ that would be in the 80s today.
- burkaman 6y agoCan you point to some of that reading? Pedantically, that goes against the definition of IQ, where 100 is always average so it can't really increase over time, but your general point about people getting smarter doesn't intuitively make sense to me. Obviously we have more knowledge and resources to build on today, but I've never seen any reason to believe modern humans are smarter from birth than humans born 300 years ago.
- user982 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
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- pingpongchef 6y agoNot at all but Molyneux disagrees with so many left-of-center ideas that the effort needed to effectively detail how Molyneux is different is great, so he gets lumped in with them.
- opnitro 6y ago"The primary purpose of feminism is to lower white birthrates." - https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1181003746983043074 https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/118100374698304307... "If we had been allowed to talk about race and IQ, the invasion of Iraq would never have occurred, because no one would have been under the illusion that a Jeffersonian Republic was going to emerge from a population with an IQ in the 80s. Opposing science got >500k people killed." - https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/1082489068741513217 https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/108248906874151321... EDIT: added a second quote
- neonate 6y agoUgh. Those are awful.
- opnitro 6y agoYup, he's bad folks
- pingpongchef 6y agoYour argument is incomplete. I don't dispute that he said those things but what do you claim is the similarity to Spencer or Duke?
- opnitro 6y agoYeah, they're both very racist, to the level of supposing that that white society is inherently superior. The first quote implies a the existence of a conspiracy to lower white birthrates. The second states clearly that Iraqi people would not be capable of forming a just society due to "low IQ". These are definitionally white supremacist talking points. EDIT: spelling
- burkaman 6y agoIf I had to rank them, I would agree that David Duke and Richard Spencer are a little more blatantly racist than Stefan Molyneux, but why does that matter? If they're all violating the hate speech policy, then they should all be banned, even if David Duke is violating it more.
- empath75 6y agoPolite white nationalism is still white nationalism.
- DanCarvajal 6y agoTen years ago I met him once as a libertarian/free-market conference, he was there with his kids. He seemed like an adorable father at the time. Wow can people change.
- karyon 6y agoHere's a collection of quotes (from another comment downthread for visibility): https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/stefan-molyneux https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/indi... a little teaser: > Screaming 'racism' at people because blacks are collectively less intelligent...is insane > The whole breeding arena of the species needs to be cleaned the fuck up https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux is also great.