4 ms·

/r/gendercritical was also banned, an active and well-moderated radical feminist sub. I am not a radical feminist, nor was I particularly welcomed there as a m

by gtk40 6y ago

/r/gendercritical was also banned, an active and well-moderated radical feminist sub. I am not a radical feminist, nor was I particularly welcomed there as a man, but I found the sub interesting to expand my perspective.

abellerose 6y ago
What did that subreddit do besides hating on trans people? I never saw anything but countless posts targeting hate against trans people.
- nullc 6y ago
  People see what catches their attention. Some people would go there and read articles about gay women being attacked for choosing whom they took on as sexual partners. (I found it quite surprising and extremely rapey that anyone would consider it appropriate to be critical of anyone for choosing their consenting sexual partners however they like-- but it happens sometimes.) Or read about people being displaced from scholarships because the top spots in track in their community were held by hormonally advantaged persons. Or learn about cases where tomboyish young women were told that they were actually men because they were interested in science or sports. Personally, I find it too easy to be extremely self righteous in ethical proclamations if I never even get exposed to the corner cases where there can be a truly difficult conflict of rights. Now-- taking fringe events like the above examples and exaggerating them as some kind of endemic phenomena absolutely can fuel hate. It isn't always an easy line to walk.
  - saltminer 6y ago
    Trans people were the subject of a great many, if not most of the posts on GC for the past few months I've paid attention to the sub. GC is a radical feminist hangout, as in SCUM Manifesto "men are the root of all evil and must be exterminated to liberate women"-flavor radical feminism, which lends itself to trans exclusion quite easily since you just have to view trans women as men for them to become evil fetishizers who want to become women for their own pleasure (this also allows them to pity trans men since they become women who were tricked into becoming a man for social reasons instead of acknowledging that gender dysphoria is real). Trans stuff was certainly not the only thing they talked about, but it was the most common, and trans posts tended to have the most discussion.
    - oska 6y ago
      > you just have to view trans women as men Men who 'identify' as women are still men (i.e. adult males). This is a biological reality that the vast majority of the population understands. Promoting an ideological dogma such as "trans women are women" only proves you are an ideologue who thinks repeated chants can somehow deny reality. But no, classifying men as men is not a 'view', it is describing biological reality.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Could you expand on objectively what you experienced that you felt was hate?
  - abellerose 6y ago
    Hate is just a "word" used to express human emotion to another human. Someone can view "hate" differently because they've not experienced the emotion of another that has defined hate from their own personal unique life events. In this world I've encountered people that truly hate others so very much. They wish what they hate didn't exist and they honestly believe the world would be better if it happened to become true. I have even felt that feeling in my life but from personal abuse I experienced from anti-lgbtq+ parents. I consider myself permanently disfigured because of being prevented medical treatment when young. So I have constant reminders with all the other abuse I lived from my parents. In any case gendercritical specifically promoted slang for trans people. Slang that would at the same time be used to invalidate trans people as nothing but the sex they were born at birth and while justifying the belief that everyone should just accept we're all born without choice in this world without having any right to personally fix what we dislike. Countless trans people were harassed by posts created on that subreddit of misfortunate transgender people just dealing with the cards they've been dealt. The posts would have constant comments making fun of how they look so much as their birth sex and derogatory jokes towards the person's misfortunate circumstances. Anyway I'm happy about the decision of Reddit. I go through life with realizing people don't have free will and we're just in a dysfunctional system that's constantly evolving to hopefully one day make it so people don't behave so cruel to one another.
    - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
      There's a disconnect here I feel. If one chooses to refer to biological females as female, and biological males as male (and perhaps approach other situations ad hoc) then it seems you would say "this is trans hate" but the person practicing that behaviour doesn't [necessarily] hate the people they're referring to. Indeed the person who uses biological identifiers seems often to be the hated person, a person who identified themselves as trans might hate them for not going along with that identity; but the person who is choosing how they personally identify others would in this situation often be labelled as committing hate-speech. IMO it's disagreement, not hate. Compare the situation to that of the relatively few people who have a body dismorphia such that they believe themselves to be felines (cats) in a human body. They're no less sincere. But I'd still, without hate, refer to them as humans. Those who disagree are surely entitled to take that position, regardless of whether someone else chooses to consider that hurtful, or do you disagree?
- chippy 6y ago
  are people expanding their perspective from encountering non mainstream content dangerous? it appears many view the subreddit as being awful. Is it possible that another could view awful content and derive positive value from it?
asdf21 6y ago
You literally can’t debate any controversial issue / cultural topic without it being called “hate” now...
eclat 6y ago
Yeah this is odd. I didn’t spend much time there as it’s not a topic I particularly care about, but from what I saw it was mainly discussion around transgender and women’s rights from a perspective critical of TRAs, which is the standard view in the west from my admittedly limited understanding.

by gtk40 6y ago

abellerose 6y ago

What did that subreddit do besides hating on trans people? I never saw anything but countless posts targeting hate against trans people.

nullc 6y ago
People see what catches their attention. Some people would go there and read articles about gay women being attacked for choosing whom they took on as sexual partners. (I found it quite surprising and extremely rapey that anyone would consider it appropriate to be critical of anyone for choosing their consenting sexual partners however they like-- but it happens sometimes.) Or read about people being displaced from scholarships because the top spots in track in their community were held by hormonally advantaged persons. Or learn about cases where tomboyish young women were told that they were actually men because they were interested in science or sports. Personally, I find it too easy to be extremely self righteous in ethical proclamations if I never even get exposed to the corner cases where there can be a truly difficult conflict of rights. Now-- taking fringe events like the above examples and exaggerating them as some kind of endemic phenomena absolutely can fuel hate. It isn't always an easy line to walk.
- saltminer 6y ago
  Trans people were the subject of a great many, if not most of the posts on GC for the past few months I've paid attention to the sub. GC is a radical feminist hangout, as in SCUM Manifesto "men are the root of all evil and must be exterminated to liberate women"-flavor radical feminism, which lends itself to trans exclusion quite easily since you just have to view trans women as men for them to become evil fetishizers who want to become women for their own pleasure (this also allows them to pity trans men since they become women who were tricked into becoming a man for social reasons instead of acknowledging that gender dysphoria is real). Trans stuff was certainly not the only thing they talked about, but it was the most common, and trans posts tended to have the most discussion.
  - oska 6y ago
    > you just have to view trans women as men Men who 'identify' as women are still men (i.e. adult males). This is a biological reality that the vast majority of the population understands. Promoting an ideological dogma such as "trans women are women" only proves you are an ideologue who thinks repeated chants can somehow deny reality. But no, classifying men as men is not a 'view', it is describing biological reality.
pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Could you expand on objectively what you experienced that you felt was hate?
- abellerose 6y ago
  Hate is just a "word" used to express human emotion to another human. Someone can view "hate" differently because they've not experienced the emotion of another that has defined hate from their own personal unique life events. In this world I've encountered people that truly hate others so very much. They wish what they hate didn't exist and they honestly believe the world would be better if it happened to become true. I have even felt that feeling in my life but from personal abuse I experienced from anti-lgbtq+ parents. I consider myself permanently disfigured because of being prevented medical treatment when young. So I have constant reminders with all the other abuse I lived from my parents. In any case gendercritical specifically promoted slang for trans people. Slang that would at the same time be used to invalidate trans people as nothing but the sex they were born at birth and while justifying the belief that everyone should just accept we're all born without choice in this world without having any right to personally fix what we dislike. Countless trans people were harassed by posts created on that subreddit of misfortunate transgender people just dealing with the cards they've been dealt. The posts would have constant comments making fun of how they look so much as their birth sex and derogatory jokes towards the person's misfortunate circumstances. Anyway I'm happy about the decision of Reddit. I go through life with realizing people don't have free will and we're just in a dysfunctional system that's constantly evolving to hopefully one day make it so people don't behave so cruel to one another.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    There's a disconnect here I feel. If one chooses to refer to biological females as female, and biological males as male (and perhaps approach other situations ad hoc) then it seems you would say "this is trans hate" but the person practicing that behaviour doesn't [necessarily] hate the people they're referring to. Indeed the person who uses biological identifiers seems often to be the hated person, a person who identified themselves as trans might hate them for not going along with that identity; but the person who is choosing how they personally identify others would in this situation often be labelled as committing hate-speech. IMO it's disagreement, not hate. Compare the situation to that of the relatively few people who have a body dismorphia such that they believe themselves to be felines (cats) in a human body. They're no less sincere. But I'd still, without hate, refer to them as humans. Those who disagree are surely entitled to take that position, regardless of whether someone else chooses to consider that hurtful, or do you disagree?
chippy 6y ago
are people expanding their perspective from encountering non mainstream content dangerous? it appears many view the subreddit as being awful. Is it possible that another could view awful content and derive positive value from it?

asdf21 6y ago

You literally can’t debate any controversial issue / cultural topic without it being called “hate” now...

eclat 6y ago

Yeah this is odd. I didn’t spend much time there as it’s not a topic I particularly care about, but from what I saw it was mainly discussion around transgender and women’s rights from a perspective critical of TRAs, which is the standard view in the west from my admittedly limited understanding.