8 ms·

If PWAs die, we will be struck with this duopoly in smartphone OS for foreseeable future as native apps are the ones which help them retain their position. If

If PWAs die, we will be struck with this duopoly in smartphone OS for foreseeable future as native apps are the ones which help them retain their position. If we want upcoming pure Linux smartphone OS, Sailfish or any other platform which protect the mobile computing from becoming proprietary; we need web apps & PWAs to grow and capture significant market. Apple's treatment towards PWAs has been well known as PWAs are the only threat for its Appstore monopoly in iOS.

EastSmith 6y ago
Name three PWA apps please. I know I've built two PWA POC some time ago (using service workers and Notification API), but I've never use any PWA in the wild.
- strbean 6y ago
  Are you talking specifically about add-to-home-screen / offline capabilities? Because PWA is a very broad term, and most descriptions I've seen consider those features necessary to be a PWA. Ignoring those two, you get damn near every major web app. All of Google's applications, Facebook, Twitter, etc. etc.
  - Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
    This is a good question. You can enable add-to-home-screen for websites with a single meta tag, <meta name="mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes"> e.g. Here's one of my website with that tag[1], Ironically this feature was introduced by Apple and is considered part of PWA specs. But for the sake of this discussion, let's consider PWAs to be one which uses app manifest[2] and uses some high level device features. [1]https://needgap.com https://needgap.com [2]https://web.dev/what-are-pwas/ https://web.dev/what-are-pwas/
    - strbean 6y ago
      Woops! I left off the word "don't" in regards to those features being necessary to be considered PWAs!
- impassionedrule 6y ago
  Twitter Firefox Send Spotify
  - fzzzy 6y ago
    I love that firefox send is on this list. Thank you.
- bad_user 6y ago
  > Name three PWA apps please Fastmail, Facebook, Twitter. None of them work on iOS due to lacking web push notifications. All of them can work on Android as PWAs and as PWAs they are more secure and privacy friendly (not only due to less permissions granted, but also because you can protect yourself with uBlock Origin et all). Keep in mind that your personal experience is an anecdote.
  - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
    >Fastmail, Facebook, Twitter. I don't Android, so I really don't know - but are those PWAs the only or primary options for most users on the Android platform? If not, they're really just "native apps which are also available as PWAs", and without data on relative adoption rates it's not really very useful information.
    - asjw 6y ago
      But a billion+ users do Android on a 99$ phone
    - bad_user 6y ago
      So you're invoking popularity, but I don't understand what that has to do with it. I use web apps all the time, even on mobile. And I'm sure I'm not alone. Speaking of which Fastmail's Android and iOS apps are just the web app packaged in a native shell ;-) and they are not alone. For them clearly it was cost efective to work on that web app. As for why they bothered to package their web app in a native shell? Maybe that's were the problem is.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
  Not sure which region you're from, so I've included the filter for you[1]. These are from famous companies, every major apps uses PWA in some part of their app. [1]https://developers.google.com/web/showcase/region https://developers.google.com/web/showcase/region
- zdragnar 6y ago
  My last employer (a business to business company) exclusively went down the web app route, with some minimal PWA features, because their clients genuinely preferred not having to go through the app store to install it on their (often personal) phones. Whether they bookmarked the website or "installed" it to their home screen or only used it from their laptop / desktop was entirely up to them, and they never had to deal with the app upgrade hassle. Tastes vary, I suppose.
spideymans 6y ago
From a developer's point of view, I can see the value in PWAs (for them), but as an end user, I really don't see the benefit of PWAs over native apps. The UX is almost always severely degraded when compared to their native counterparts (even if the feature set is ostensibly identical). Why would I use a Twitter PWA, when the native app provides a much better UX?
- mikewhy 6y ago
  Why would I use the Twitter app, when I can get the same out of the PWA and not have to download a hundred meg update every week for "bug fixes and improvements"?
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Or just use Tweeetbot, it weighs in at 7.2MB and the last update was 8 months ago.
  - Eugeleo 6y ago
    Maybe in the case of Twitter it makes sense (I'm not using Twitter myself), but in general, as the OP notes, the UX is worse with PWAs than it is with native apps. So, to rephrase your comment to reflect this > Why would I use the app, when I can get /something worse but workable/ out of the PWA and not have to download a hundred meg update every week And then the answer might be --- because your phone has 128 gigs of memory, your home wi-fi has unlimited bandwidth, and the updates all get downloaded automatically while you're sleeping, you might decide to go for the better UX in exchange for nothing at all.
  - zuhsetaqi 6y ago
    Downloading a PWA isn’t smaller and it also needs updates just like a native app. And the answer to your question is the comment you replied to.
  - danudey 6y ago
    Every time I load the page for a tweet in their PWA on iOS it gives me an error, and then I reload the page and it works fine. Why would I use the Twitter website, when I can get the same out of the app, it loads faster, and it actually works consistently? Plus I don't have to log in in app webviews all the time.
MintelIE 6y ago
Nah people can just program in Java again.
dwaite 6y ago
We almost have a duopoly in browsers as well - you have Firefox, and everything else with market share are forks of WebKit.

EastSmith 6y ago

Name three PWA apps please. I know I've built two PWA POC some time ago (using service workers and Notification API), but I've never use any PWA in the wild.

strbean 6y ago
Are you talking specifically about add-to-home-screen / offline capabilities? Because PWA is a very broad term, and most descriptions I've seen consider those features necessary to be a PWA. Ignoring those two, you get damn near every major web app. All of Google's applications, Facebook, Twitter, etc. etc.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
  This is a good question. You can enable add-to-home-screen for websites with a single meta tag, <meta name="mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes"> e.g. Here's one of my website with that tag[1], Ironically this feature was introduced by Apple and is considered part of PWA specs. But for the sake of this discussion, let's consider PWAs to be one which uses app manifest[2] and uses some high level device features. [1]https://needgap.com https://needgap.com [2]https://web.dev/what-are-pwas/ https://web.dev/what-are-pwas/
  - strbean 6y ago
    Woops! I left off the word "don't" in regards to those features being necessary to be considered PWAs!
impassionedrule 6y ago
Twitter Firefox Send Spotify
- fzzzy 6y ago
  I love that firefox send is on this list. Thank you.
bad_user 6y ago
> Name three PWA apps please Fastmail, Facebook, Twitter. None of them work on iOS due to lacking web push notifications. All of them can work on Android as PWAs and as PWAs they are more secure and privacy friendly (not only due to less permissions granted, but also because you can protect yourself with uBlock Origin et all). Keep in mind that your personal experience is an anecdote.
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  >Fastmail, Facebook, Twitter. I don't Android, so I really don't know - but are those PWAs the only or primary options for most users on the Android platform? If not, they're really just "native apps which are also available as PWAs", and without data on relative adoption rates it's not really very useful information.
  - asjw 6y ago
    But a billion+ users do Android on a 99$ phone
  - bad_user 6y ago
    So you're invoking popularity, but I don't understand what that has to do with it. I use web apps all the time, even on mobile. And I'm sure I'm not alone. Speaking of which Fastmail's Android and iOS apps are just the web app packaged in a native shell ;-) and they are not alone. For them clearly it was cost efective to work on that web app. As for why they bothered to package their web app in a native shell? Maybe that's were the problem is.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
Not sure which region you're from, so I've included the filter for you[1]. These are from famous companies, every major apps uses PWA in some part of their app. [1]https://developers.google.com/web/showcase/region https://developers.google.com/web/showcase/region
zdragnar 6y ago
My last employer (a business to business company) exclusively went down the web app route, with some minimal PWA features, because their clients genuinely preferred not having to go through the app store to install it on their (often personal) phones. Whether they bookmarked the website or "installed" it to their home screen or only used it from their laptop / desktop was entirely up to them, and they never had to deal with the app upgrade hassle. Tastes vary, I suppose.

spideymans 6y ago

From a developer's point of view, I can see the value in PWAs (for them), but as an end user, I really don't see the benefit of PWAs over native apps. The UX is almost always severely degraded when compared to their native counterparts (even if the feature set is ostensibly identical). Why would I use a Twitter PWA, when the native app provides a much better UX?

mikewhy 6y ago
Why would I use the Twitter app, when I can get the same out of the PWA and not have to download a hundred meg update every week for "bug fixes and improvements"?
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Or just use Tweeetbot, it weighs in at 7.2MB and the last update was 8 months ago.
- Eugeleo 6y ago
  Maybe in the case of Twitter it makes sense (I'm not using Twitter myself), but in general, as the OP notes, the UX is worse with PWAs than it is with native apps. So, to rephrase your comment to reflect this > Why would I use the app, when I can get /something worse but workable/ out of the PWA and not have to download a hundred meg update every week And then the answer might be --- because your phone has 128 gigs of memory, your home wi-fi has unlimited bandwidth, and the updates all get downloaded automatically while you're sleeping, you might decide to go for the better UX in exchange for nothing at all.
- zuhsetaqi 6y ago
  Downloading a PWA isn’t smaller and it also needs updates just like a native app. And the answer to your question is the comment you replied to.
- danudey 6y ago
  Every time I load the page for a tweet in their PWA on iOS it gives me an error, and then I reload the page and it works fine. Why would I use the Twitter website, when I can get the same out of the app, it loads faster, and it actually works consistently? Plus I don't have to log in in app webviews all the time.

MintelIE 6y ago

Nah people can just program in Java again.

dwaite 6y ago

We almost have a duopoly in browsers as well - you have Firefox, and everything else with market share are forks of WebKit.