5 ms·

Besides, I know they want to turn the browser into an os, but it's not one. It's sandboxed from the os and limited to some use cases, which is the point. I don

Besides, I know they want to turn the browser into an os, but it's not one. It's sandboxed from the os and limited to some use cases, which is the point. I don't want something capable of hot loading code from any web site to have the capabilities of my OS.

postalrat 6y ago
Then disable those permissions.
- jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
  Average users won't do it.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- BiteCode_dev 6y ago
  Manual security = no security
dheera 6y ago
It's kind of sad though because it's still 10X easier to build a browser app than a native app simply because of the wealth of highly-usable stuff written for JS. Every time I have to build a GUI in Linux I just build a webapp that connects to a TCP backend on localhost because that way I can just build a beautiful UI in HTML/JS/CSS and I don't have to deal with the mess that is GTK, QT, TCL, TK, and all that crap. Android programming is another can of worms and I'm frankly fed up with Gradle updates breaking my project every update and needing 79+ files, multiple cludgy steps for signing APKs, zipalign (wtf) and other crap just for a Hello World. What would be nice to have is "installable" apps that use the webkit rendering engine but have full access to the system including directly opening TCP ports and direct access to /dev. These would have to be trusted apps obviously. Websites that load code without consent should be restricted, of course.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > Every time I have to build a GUI in Linux I just build a webapp that connects to a TCP backend on localhost because that way I can just build a beautiful UI in HTML/JS/CSS and I don't have to deal with the mess that is GTK, QT, TCL, TK, and all that crap. I suspect this has more to do with the state of native Linux development tools versus Javascript dev tools then it has to do with the general case. Dev tools for Windows and iOS/ MacOs are fairly straight forward. Not sure about Android, since my burning hatred of Java has removed my desire to mess with that platform entirely. (I know Kotlin exists, still not interested) Update: I'm basing my comment of what it's like based on the quoted comment, not making an assertion about how good/ bad it is.
  - kitsunesoba 6y ago
    > Dev tools for Windows and iOS/ MacOs are fairly straight forward. Can't speak much for Windows, but the Apple dev story is pretty good. Platform SDKs are deep and capable, if sometimes not well documented, and there's a clear "right" way to do most things. One can build a "world class" app with nothing but Swift+UIKit and few or no third party libraries. SwiftUI is rapidly improving this too, bringing a fully native "modern" reactive approach that works across all Apple OSes. Xcode can be a cantankerous beast at times but it's been getting a lot better in recent releases. > Not sure about Android, since my burning hatred of Java has removed my desire to mess with that platform entirely. (I know Kotlin exists, still not interested) It's slowly improving but still very much a mess. Jetpack Compose looks to be poising itself as the SwiftUI of Android and that will no doubt improve things, but I have doubts that Android development will ever be as nice as iOS development is.
    - cromwellian 6y ago
      Well, IntelliJ Idea is a fantastically better IDE than XCode from a functionality standpoint, and Kotlin + Compose is IMHO, better than SwiftUI. Compose isn't a SwiftUI clone, it's a pure-functional memoization framework with compiler support.
      - 6y ago
koonsolo 6y ago
I wonder if and when the splitup will happen between the "text" web and "app" web. I know you can disable Javascript, but this is still different.
- robbrown451 6y ago
  What would Hacker News be? How about email apps such as Gmail or Yahoo mail?
  - gsich 6y ago
    There are email clients.
    - robbrown451 6y ago
      There are. I used Eudora up to 2005. Incidentally, I can't look at my email history before 2005, because, you know... formats become obsolete, hard drives die, etc. Do those clients work on my mac, my chromebook, my windows box, and my android phone? Call me crazy, but I prefer web apps for that kind of stuff. I'm also glad I don't have to download an app to use Hacker News. As an independent developer, I am quite pleased that I can target one platform, the web, without having to deal with all the mess of multiple native apps, and worry that people won't run my simple app because they don't trust me not to delete their hard drive, and so on.
      - gsich 6y ago
        >Do those clients work on my mac, my chromebook, my windows box, and my android phone? Yes. >Call me crazy, but I prefer web apps for that kind of stuff. I'm also glad I don't have to download an app to use Hacker News. Web means HTTP, Email is POP3/SMTP/IMAP. Different protocol, different programs. That you can use a website to view and send emails is not the default case and is merely a interface to those protocols.
        robbrown451 6y ago
robbrown451 6y ago
The browser is indeed an application platform. Even HackerNews is an app, although it uses a minimum of browser functionality. Maybe you don't want things like videochat or paint programs or music learning apps to run in a browser, but lots of people do. Imagine if Firefox said "we're not going to let any web page access the camera"... their market share would probably drop in half overnight.

postalrat 6y ago

Then disable those permissions.

jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
Average users won't do it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
BiteCode_dev 6y ago
Manual security = no security

dheera 6y ago

It's kind of sad though because it's still 10X easier to build a browser app than a native app simply because of the wealth of highly-usable stuff written for JS. Every time I have to build a GUI in Linux I just build a webapp that connects to a TCP backend on localhost because that way I can just build a beautiful UI in HTML/JS/CSS and I don't have to deal with the mess that is GTK, QT, TCL, TK, and all that crap. Android programming is another can of worms and I'm frankly fed up with Gradle updates breaking my project every update and needing 79+ files, multiple cludgy steps for signing APKs, zipalign (wtf) and other crap just for a Hello World. What would be nice to have is "installable" apps that use the webkit rendering engine but have full access to the system including directly opening TCP ports and direct access to /dev. These would have to be trusted apps obviously. Websites that load code without consent should be restricted, of course.

ogre_codes 6y ago
> Every time I have to build a GUI in Linux I just build a webapp that connects to a TCP backend on localhost because that way I can just build a beautiful UI in HTML/JS/CSS and I don't have to deal with the mess that is GTK, QT, TCL, TK, and all that crap. I suspect this has more to do with the state of native Linux development tools versus Javascript dev tools then it has to do with the general case. Dev tools for Windows and iOS/ MacOs are fairly straight forward. Not sure about Android, since my burning hatred of Java has removed my desire to mess with that platform entirely. (I know Kotlin exists, still not interested) Update: I'm basing my comment of what it's like based on the quoted comment, not making an assertion about how good/ bad it is.
- kitsunesoba 6y ago
  > Dev tools for Windows and iOS/ MacOs are fairly straight forward. Can't speak much for Windows, but the Apple dev story is pretty good. Platform SDKs are deep and capable, if sometimes not well documented, and there's a clear "right" way to do most things. One can build a "world class" app with nothing but Swift+UIKit and few or no third party libraries. SwiftUI is rapidly improving this too, bringing a fully native "modern" reactive approach that works across all Apple OSes. Xcode can be a cantankerous beast at times but it's been getting a lot better in recent releases. > Not sure about Android, since my burning hatred of Java has removed my desire to mess with that platform entirely. (I know Kotlin exists, still not interested) It's slowly improving but still very much a mess. Jetpack Compose looks to be poising itself as the SwiftUI of Android and that will no doubt improve things, but I have doubts that Android development will ever be as nice as iOS development is.
  - cromwellian 6y ago
    Well, IntelliJ Idea is a fantastically better IDE than XCode from a functionality standpoint, and Kotlin + Compose is IMHO, better than SwiftUI. Compose isn't a SwiftUI clone, it's a pure-functional memoization framework with compiler support.
    - 6y ago

koonsolo 6y ago

I wonder if and when the splitup will happen between the "text" web and "app" web. I know you can disable Javascript, but this is still different.

robbrown451 6y ago
What would Hacker News be? How about email apps such as Gmail or Yahoo mail?
- gsich 6y ago
  There are email clients.
  - robbrown451 6y ago
    There are. I used Eudora up to 2005. Incidentally, I can't look at my email history before 2005, because, you know... formats become obsolete, hard drives die, etc. Do those clients work on my mac, my chromebook, my windows box, and my android phone? Call me crazy, but I prefer web apps for that kind of stuff. I'm also glad I don't have to download an app to use Hacker News. As an independent developer, I am quite pleased that I can target one platform, the web, without having to deal with all the mess of multiple native apps, and worry that people won't run my simple app because they don't trust me not to delete their hard drive, and so on.
    - gsich 6y ago
      >Do those clients work on my mac, my chromebook, my windows box, and my android phone? Yes. >Call me crazy, but I prefer web apps for that kind of stuff. I'm also glad I don't have to download an app to use Hacker News. Web means HTTP, Email is POP3/SMTP/IMAP. Different protocol, different programs. That you can use a website to view and send emails is not the default case and is merely a interface to those protocols.
      - robbrown451 6y ago

robbrown451 6y ago

The browser is indeed an application platform. Even HackerNews is an app, although it uses a minimum of browser functionality. Maybe you don't want things like videochat or paint programs or music learning apps to run in a browser, but lots of people do. Imagine if Firefox said "we're not going to let any web page access the camera"... their market share would probably drop in half overnight.