3 ms·

Is there some special property of the US that makes it immoral to control its territory like other nations? Candidly, this feels like grooming.

lopmotr 6y ago
He's pointing out the contradiction people hold in their heads, not saying that it's immoral. Many people believe in mutually incompatible ideas like this. I think it's because they get more satisfaction from fitting in with the crowd or experiencing the pleasure of reinforcing their beliefs than they do from trying to be right, which is emotionally unrewarding. I think they should be honest and say "It's OK to discriminate against people based on the circumstances of their birth but I make an exception for race because my society told me I must." It sounds kind of stupid, but it is stupid. That's the cost of honesty.
logicchains 6y ago
> Is there some special property of the US that makes it immoral to control its territory like other nations? Whether or not other people/nations do something is not a good arbiter of morality. But that aside, most other countries didn't just impose a large-scale immigration ban like the US just did.
- pnako 6y ago
  Because most countries don't have huge immigration programs like this in the first place.
  - logicchains 6y ago
    If we use "percentage of the population born overseas" as a metric, quite a few countries have larger immigration programs than the US: https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-population.htm https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-population.htm
    - pnako 6y ago
      Your source is the OECD, which is basically just Western, developed countries. If you look at the entire world, the picture is different.
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    The US has had a huge immigration program (although it has waxed and waned) over many years because settling vast tracts of land requires a lot of human labor. Same story in Australia.
baddox 6y ago
No, all the other nations have that property as well.

lopmotr 6y ago

He's pointing out the contradiction people hold in their heads, not saying that it's immoral. Many people believe in mutually incompatible ideas like this. I think it's because they get more satisfaction from fitting in with the crowd or experiencing the pleasure of reinforcing their beliefs than they do from trying to be right, which is emotionally unrewarding. I think they should be honest and say "It's OK to discriminate against people based on the circumstances of their birth but I make an exception for race because my society told me I must." It sounds kind of stupid, but it is stupid. That's the cost of honesty.

logicchains 6y ago

> Is there some special property of the US that makes it immoral to control its territory like other nations? Whether or not other people/nations do something is not a good arbiter of morality. But that aside, most other countries didn't just impose a large-scale immigration ban like the US just did.

pnako 6y ago
Because most countries don't have huge immigration programs like this in the first place.
- logicchains 6y ago
  If we use "percentage of the population born overseas" as a metric, quite a few countries have larger immigration programs than the US: https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-population.htm https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-population.htm
  - pnako 6y ago
    Your source is the OECD, which is basically just Western, developed countries. If you look at the entire world, the picture is different.
- anigbrowl 6y ago
  The US has had a huge immigration program (although it has waxed and waned) over many years because settling vast tracts of land requires a lot of human labor. Same story in Australia.

baddox 6y ago

No, all the other nations have that property as well.