5 ms·

What model? A monthly fee? As opposed to what? Free? Getting investors who will pay for development while the service monetizes the users? It's unfortunate tha

by gexla 6y ago

What model? A monthly fee? As opposed to what? Free? Getting investors who will pay for development while the service monetizes the users? It's unfortunate that this is what users have come to expect. That we feel should be getting free usage of a service when the developers have bills to pay just like everyone else, in addition to the cloud usage costs. The people complaining about monthly fee in that three are target users for nobody but Facebook, Twitter, etc.

kshatrea 6y ago
I personally like the JetBrains model where one can pay yearly and get updates but if you have to stop paying due to some reason you can still use the version you originally paid for.
- drannex 6y ago
  I miss this model of releasing products, it was the defacto standard for the first 40 years of software development and I shall weep for it's return.
  - gexla 6y ago
    Right, for much of that time we didn't have digital distribution. 40 years ago we were buying vinyl records (probably superior products) and cassette tapes. 10 years ago, selling subs were a pain because we didn't have providers such as Stripe to make it easy.
healsjnr1 6y ago
Whether we agree with it or not, I think what is strange is how subscriptions models have become the norm. There _is_ an alternative that isn't free and that is one off payments (rember when we used to buy software?). I happily pay in the order of $50 to $120 for one off payments, often locked to a version. In many cases this is _more_ than I've ended up paying for subscriptions I've used, then abandoned after 6-12 months.
- dageshi 6y ago
  Regular, predictable monthly income is just a better model for businesses than irregular large one off purchases. Customers generally don't mind so long as they can cancel easily if they find they don't need or want the product. Plus, you can't really buy a "web app" with a one off purchase and much more software is developed as web apps nowadays.
- Tehnix 6y ago
  The only model where a one-off payment really makes sense is for products that have zero cost for the developer to keep alive. For example an SQL Client doesn’t need a cloud component. The difference here is, Roam and similar services run on servers that cost money monthly. The service is almost worthless without it. Ultimately someone needs to pay for this.
  - d4rti 6y ago
    These products will still require maintenance with changes in drivers and suchlike. No software is really finished.
  - healsjnr1 6y ago
    Thing is, at their heart, these are document editing tools. They don't actually need an on ongoing operational cost (yes, maintenance, but as a number of people point out you can take the jet brains approach and lock to versions). The supposed benefit of my data being hosted is not a benefit to everyone. I already have multiple solutions to backup and sharing, I don't need another silo where my data lives. I don't need another vendor hosting arbitrary data which means I now can't use the product because the megacorp I work for won't let that through their legal. Key point I was making above was that one off payment is an option and can be successful, we don't need to fall straight into the free vs subscription dichotomy.
  - bosie 6y ago
    > The difference here is, Roam and similar services run on servers that cost money monthly. The service is almost worthless without it. Ultimately someone needs to pay for this. that is also a downside though. which side of the coin wins depends on the customer. I rather use icloud/dropbox and apps then an unencrypted web version. Roam decided to implement a web app, the actual use case does not require a server or monthly maintanance costs.
input_sh 6y ago
I'm all for a premium, but $15/month is a bit too much. Almost all their competitors are half the price. Here's the pricing of their competitors I can think of on top of my head: Evernote: €7/month Notion: $4/month Ulysses: $5.49/month Standard Notes: $9.99/month OneNote (+ the entire Office 365): $9.99/month Inkdrop: $4.99/month Bear: $1.49/month ($14.99 per year!)
- gexla 6y ago
  Same response as I gave to another comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23667492 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23667492 Why are we talking about Roam rather than those services then? Why don't we just "find and replace Roam with Bear?" (anyone know the Regex for that?)
- nika1975 6y ago
  If you do not get a value of $15/month from using Roam then it simply is not the right tool for you. Roam makes it easy for me to explore connections between ideas. It has a user interface that fits my way of thinking. I'm also a Office 365 subscriber but OneNote cannot replace Roam for me.
  - edjrage 6y ago
    Honestly, it's not that hard to implement something like Roam compared to the aforementioned competitors. The value is in the idea, and even that isn't novel. It really is a mystery to me why an open source alternative doesn't exist / isn't more popular.
    - theon144 6y ago
      >Honestly, it's not that hard to implement something like Roam compared to the aforementioned competitors. Getting hard "Dropbox is trivial to implement with FTP, curlftpfs and CVS" vibes from this kind of thinking.
      - edjrage 6y ago

by gexla 6y ago

kshatrea 6y ago

I personally like the JetBrains model where one can pay yearly and get updates but if you have to stop paying due to some reason you can still use the version you originally paid for.

drannex 6y ago
I miss this model of releasing products, it was the defacto standard for the first 40 years of software development and I shall weep for it's return.
- gexla 6y ago
  Right, for much of that time we didn't have digital distribution. 40 years ago we were buying vinyl records (probably superior products) and cassette tapes. 10 years ago, selling subs were a pain because we didn't have providers such as Stripe to make it easy.

healsjnr1 6y ago

Whether we agree with it or not, I think what is strange is how subscriptions models have become the norm. There _is_ an alternative that isn't free and that is one off payments (rember when we used to buy software?). I happily pay in the order of $50 to $120 for one off payments, often locked to a version. In many cases this is _more_ than I've ended up paying for subscriptions I've used, then abandoned after 6-12 months.

dageshi 6y ago
Regular, predictable monthly income is just a better model for businesses than irregular large one off purchases. Customers generally don't mind so long as they can cancel easily if they find they don't need or want the product. Plus, you can't really buy a "web app" with a one off purchase and much more software is developed as web apps nowadays.
Tehnix 6y ago
The only model where a one-off payment really makes sense is for products that have zero cost for the developer to keep alive. For example an SQL Client doesn’t need a cloud component. The difference here is, Roam and similar services run on servers that cost money monthly. The service is almost worthless without it. Ultimately someone needs to pay for this.
- d4rti 6y ago
  These products will still require maintenance with changes in drivers and suchlike. No software is really finished.
- healsjnr1 6y ago
  Thing is, at their heart, these are document editing tools. They don't actually need an on ongoing operational cost (yes, maintenance, but as a number of people point out you can take the jet brains approach and lock to versions). The supposed benefit of my data being hosted is not a benefit to everyone. I already have multiple solutions to backup and sharing, I don't need another silo where my data lives. I don't need another vendor hosting arbitrary data which means I now can't use the product because the megacorp I work for won't let that through their legal. Key point I was making above was that one off payment is an option and can be successful, we don't need to fall straight into the free vs subscription dichotomy.
- bosie 6y ago
  > The difference here is, Roam and similar services run on servers that cost money monthly. The service is almost worthless without it. Ultimately someone needs to pay for this. that is also a downside though. which side of the coin wins depends on the customer. I rather use icloud/dropbox and apps then an unencrypted web version. Roam decided to implement a web app, the actual use case does not require a server or monthly maintanance costs.

input_sh 6y ago

I'm all for a premium, but $15/month is a bit too much. Almost all their competitors are half the price. Here's the pricing of their competitors I can think of on top of my head: Evernote: €7/month Notion: $4/month Ulysses: $5.49/month Standard Notes: $9.99/month OneNote (+ the entire Office 365): $9.99/month Inkdrop: $4.99/month Bear: $1.49/month ($14.99 per year!)

gexla 6y ago
Same response as I gave to another comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23667492 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23667492 Why are we talking about Roam rather than those services then? Why don't we just "find and replace Roam with Bear?" (anyone know the Regex for that?)
nika1975 6y ago
If you do not get a value of $15/month from using Roam then it simply is not the right tool for you. Roam makes it easy for me to explore connections between ideas. It has a user interface that fits my way of thinking. I'm also a Office 365 subscriber but OneNote cannot replace Roam for me.
- edjrage 6y ago
  Honestly, it's not that hard to implement something like Roam compared to the aforementioned competitors. The value is in the idea, and even that isn't novel. It really is a mystery to me why an open source alternative doesn't exist / isn't more popular.
  - theon144 6y ago
    >Honestly, it's not that hard to implement something like Roam compared to the aforementioned competitors. Getting hard "Dropbox is trivial to implement with FTP, curlftpfs and CVS" vibes from this kind of thinking.
    - edjrage 6y ago