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Being that this is Hacker News, and thinking completely off the top of my head... I fixed my sleep apnea by sleeping with an oxymeter on. When breathing was ob

Being that this is Hacker News, and thinking completely off the top of my head... I fixed my sleep apnea by sleeping with an oxymeter on. When breathing was obstructed, my blood oxygen dropped. The oxymeter beeped and woke me up. I changed positions, and went back to sleep, ultimately changing sleep habits to the point that I can get through most nights without awakening. I was able to avoid using a CPAP that way. Perhaps a muscle tension sensing device, such as https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13723 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13723 could serve a similar function. Place the sensors on your jaw muscles while you sleep (may only need to be one of them) and if you clench, it beeps or buzzes and wakes you up. May take some inventiveness to integrate it with power and alert, and then to get it comfortable enough to sleep in. And you'd want to avoid any cords that could wrap around you. It may not lead to a cure, but might give you an idea of what's going on when you clench at night.

graeme 6y ago
Interesting. There are three products I found on the market made for this, but one is unavailable to consumers, the other has temporarily ceased production, and the third I have but have not been able to get working. I’m trying some electrode gel on the one I have. If that doesn’t work, I’ll look into the sensor you linked. The process you described is exactly what these devices do: biofeedback.
- graeme 6y ago
  Forgot, for those interested, the products are: * grindcare: has studies, out of production * bruxrelief: no consumer product yet. No biofeedback * sleep guard: trying to get it to work
naveen99 6y ago
Yes, sleep apnea is associated with bruxism. I couldn’t tolerate cpap, sleeping on my tummy or side helps some.
- SubiculumCode 6y ago
  What type of mask were you using? I find the nasal pillows to pretty comfortable. Also, was your machine and auto-titrating CPAP? That helps alot
  - naveen99 6y ago
    i think i tried nasal pillows. not auto-titrating. Probably didn't give it enough time to get adjusted... but my sleep is better now anyway.
moltar 6y ago
Hey, which oxymeter do you use? Thank you.
- 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
  Facelake. Uses 2 AAA batteries. Good for 3-4 nights.
  - broth 6y ago
    Which model?
    - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
      FL350 fingertip. If you can spend more, I'd suggest the wrist type. The fingertip can be a little uncomfortable being clamped to your finger all night.
      - broth 6y ago
        Thanks. In a previous comment you said that “The oxymeter beeped and woke me up.” Is this the same oxymeter? I read the FAQ for the FL350 and it doesn’t have an alarm.
        11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
        I double checked and the one I use is an old model (FL100) that appears to have been discontinued. The FL350 mostly resembles it, though it appears you are correct that the FL350 does not have an alarm. My apologies for the misdirection. This one does have an alarm: https://www.amazon.com/Wellue-Fingertip-Saturation-Batteries-Non-Bluetooth/dp/B085Y19X57/ https://www.amazon.com/Wellue-Fingertip-Saturation-Batteries...
- jedberg 6y ago
  FYI, if you have an Apple watch, it is believed that they will be adding PulseOx to it with iOS14. Apparently the hardware is already capable.
httpsterio 6y ago
can you recommend any device for the sleep apnea? I'm experiencing some symptoms and would love to proactively do something about it.
- thomk 6y ago
  Yes, get a CPAP. You have to go to a sleep doctor, get tested and then you can get one. I have one and it absolutely changed my life, nearly everyone says that. It effectively fixes obstructive sleep apnea.
  - ShamelessC 6y ago
    It's been recently suggested to me by my psychiatrist that I take a sleep study. I know this might seem dumb, but my biggest hesitation is that the mere any of being watched by someone will make it extremely difficult for me to actually fall asleep. I generally have a tough time falling asleep outside of my comfort zone e.g. at a friend's place. Was this a problem for you? I have a feeling a sleep medication would help with this but won't that interfere with the study?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - nathanwh 6y ago
      Having done two sleep studies, the first time it took me 45 minutes to fall asleep, so they gave me a (low dose) Xanax the next time, you can share this concern with your doctor and they should be able to address it.
    - scrozier 6y ago
      It can be weird. My most recent study was quite comfy and unobtrusive. And they often start with a “DIY” home study these days. I put mine off for a long time, for various reasons...but when I started falling asleep driving home from work, I relented. I now sleep with a bipap machine (really well-designed device by ResMed), and it has changed my life.
    - 6y ago
m463 6y ago
I had trouble with sleep apnea. Long ago, I suspected it and was able to adjust by just sleeping on my side. Then years later, I was having more trouble. I took the test and found I had mild sleep apnea and they gave me a machine to try. I hated it and gave it back (looking back they gave me a terrible default setup and a huge facemask that most people immediately switch out) My solution was to get a mouthguard. The way it works is it keeps your jaw aligned at night, so airway+tongue are less likely to obstruct your breathing. Just search for "boil and bite" type mouthguards on amazon, they're inexpensive and pretty easy to use. What I found interesting during the mouthguard stage is that I probably have had bruxism all along. I have one part of the bone structure in my mouth that grew bigger possibly from clenching over the years. In the end, that only worked well for maybe 6 months before I started noticing the trouble again, so I went for the cpap. I had to make it work and ended up working with a heated hose and the nasal pillow style nosepiece. I'm pretty good now. (one more piece of advice, keep it clean with alcohol and you'll be much better off)
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  I had trouble for years with both sleep apnoea and bruxing in my sleep. I tried all sorts, from mouthguards to oximeter alarms, and nothing really helped, if anything, they generally worsened my sleep - I'm a light sleeper at the best of times. A visit to the doctor revealed that I was pre-diabetic, and he advised that I shed some weight - I was 250lbs, and I brought myself down to 180lbs over about six months. The sleep apnoea and bruxism both went away with the weight, and a decade on, haven't returned. I suspect that the additional weight was making my airway collapse in the night, and that would then result in me bruxing as I quietly asphyxiated in my sleep, before I'd wake up gasping in a puddle of sweat. I had thought for the longest time that the root cause was stress, and that it was therefore untreatable without major lifestyle changes which weren't tenable at the time - but the stress went on for years after I lost the weight, without bruxing or apnoea. I suppose, at root, the stress was the cause, as I sure as hell comfort ate my way out of my misery and into size 40 jeans. I do, once in a blue moon, still do the choke and grind routine, but it's usually only if I've gone to bed really quite drunk. Obviously this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, as sleep apnoea and bruxism can be brought about by any number of causes, but this was a solution for me, and might be for others who are in the same situation I was in.
elric 6y ago
Sleep apnea is a problem for two reasons: low oxygen saturation is Very Bad, and frequent arousals are Bad. Sounds like you've managed to address the first issue, but without a sleep study it's impossible to say for sure whether you've addressed the second problem. Most apneas typically occur during REM sleep, when muscle tone is at its lowest and airways are more likely to collapse. If you frequently wake up during REM (even if it's a micro-arousal), your sleep architecture is broken. It boggles the mind that sleep apnea severity is diagnosed on number of events (AHI) without considering when those events occur. Maybe you have an AHI of 3, but if they all happen during 2 hours of REM, you basically wake up 24 times during REM, which sounds a lot worse than 3 events per hour. Sauce: have sleep apnea, hate the machine, but have learned to live with it.
- flurie 6y ago
  Right, but the AHI is specifically to aid in initial and ongoing treatment. If you’re hitting a certain threshold of events with a PAP, it probably means you need more pressure, even if that AHI can indicate a fairly large range in reduction of sleep quality.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  I fixed my sleep apnea using a Velumount device, which is simply a piece of wire you stick in your throat before you go to sleep, and it keeps the important part of throat unblocked during the night. One of those things that truly deserve to be called "life hacks". Learning how to use it is a lot of "fun" (expect to spend half of the day vomiting until you learn how to insert it properly), but afterwards it works like magic. I would recommend to try it, and verify by oxymeter how it works.
  - ariste 6y ago
    I would love to try this, but I don't believe they are available in the US. Are they custom made?
    - TheCapeGreek 6y ago
      According to velumount.ch (and the other location sites), it does need a fitting session to mould it. I wasn't able to find a price list for my country and the doctor who would do the fitting is in another city, so it is pricey overall it seems. Especially if the Swiss pricing is anything to go by. The product itself seems like it's supposed to be malleable to adjust to the individual, which kind of makes the fitting session + workshop seem like rent seeking. Just give me an instruction booklet with FAQ and warnings.
amelius 6y ago
> Perhaps a muscle tension sensing device I gave a muscle tension based anti bruxism device called GrindAlert a serious try perhaps a decade ago, and it didn't help me.
hh3k0 6y ago
> When breathing was obstructed, my blood oxygen dropped. The oxymeter beeped and woke me up. That's basically what your body already does natively, though.
SubiculumCode 6y ago
CPAP is not something to avoid but to embrace. I love my machine. I sleep on my back again. I hardly wake during the night. I can breath fresh hair even with a pillow over my head. It's just lovely.

graeme 6y ago

Interesting. There are three products I found on the market made for this, but one is unavailable to consumers, the other has temporarily ceased production, and the third I have but have not been able to get working. I’m trying some electrode gel on the one I have. If that doesn’t work, I’ll look into the sensor you linked. The process you described is exactly what these devices do: biofeedback.

graeme 6y ago
Forgot, for those interested, the products are: * grindcare: has studies, out of production * bruxrelief: no consumer product yet. No biofeedback * sleep guard: trying to get it to work

naveen99 6y ago

Yes, sleep apnea is associated with bruxism. I couldn’t tolerate cpap, sleeping on my tummy or side helps some.

SubiculumCode 6y ago
What type of mask were you using? I find the nasal pillows to pretty comfortable. Also, was your machine and auto-titrating CPAP? That helps alot
- naveen99 6y ago
  i think i tried nasal pillows. not auto-titrating. Probably didn't give it enough time to get adjusted... but my sleep is better now anyway.

moltar 6y ago

Hey, which oxymeter do you use? Thank you.

11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
Facelake. Uses 2 AAA batteries. Good for 3-4 nights.
- broth 6y ago
  Which model?
  - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
    FL350 fingertip. If you can spend more, I'd suggest the wrist type. The fingertip can be a little uncomfortable being clamped to your finger all night.
    - broth 6y ago
      Thanks. In a previous comment you said that “The oxymeter beeped and woke me up.” Is this the same oxymeter? I read the FAQ for the FL350 and it doesn’t have an alarm.
      - 11thEarlOfMar 6y ago
        I double checked and the one I use is an old model (FL100) that appears to have been discontinued. The FL350 mostly resembles it, though it appears you are correct that the FL350 does not have an alarm. My apologies for the misdirection. This one does have an alarm: https://www.amazon.com/Wellue-Fingertip-Saturation-Batteries-Non-Bluetooth/dp/B085Y19X57/ https://www.amazon.com/Wellue-Fingertip-Saturation-Batteries...
jedberg 6y ago
FYI, if you have an Apple watch, it is believed that they will be adding PulseOx to it with iOS14. Apparently the hardware is already capable.

httpsterio 6y ago

can you recommend any device for the sleep apnea? I'm experiencing some symptoms and would love to proactively do something about it.

thomk 6y ago
Yes, get a CPAP. You have to go to a sleep doctor, get tested and then you can get one. I have one and it absolutely changed my life, nearly everyone says that. It effectively fixes obstructive sleep apnea.
- ShamelessC 6y ago
  It's been recently suggested to me by my psychiatrist that I take a sleep study. I know this might seem dumb, but my biggest hesitation is that the mere any of being watched by someone will make it extremely difficult for me to actually fall asleep. I generally have a tough time falling asleep outside of my comfort zone e.g. at a friend's place. Was this a problem for you? I have a feeling a sleep medication would help with this but won't that interfere with the study?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - nathanwh 6y ago
    Having done two sleep studies, the first time it took me 45 minutes to fall asleep, so they gave me a (low dose) Xanax the next time, you can share this concern with your doctor and they should be able to address it.
  - scrozier 6y ago
    It can be weird. My most recent study was quite comfy and unobtrusive. And they often start with a “DIY” home study these days. I put mine off for a long time, for various reasons...but when I started falling asleep driving home from work, I relented. I now sleep with a bipap machine (really well-designed device by ResMed), and it has changed my life.
  - 6y ago

m463 6y ago

I had trouble with sleep apnea. Long ago, I suspected it and was able to adjust by just sleeping on my side. Then years later, I was having more trouble. I took the test and found I had mild sleep apnea and they gave me a machine to try. I hated it and gave it back (looking back they gave me a terrible default setup and a huge facemask that most people immediately switch out) My solution was to get a mouthguard. The way it works is it keeps your jaw aligned at night, so airway+tongue are less likely to obstruct your breathing. Just search for "boil and bite" type mouthguards on amazon, they're inexpensive and pretty easy to use. What I found interesting during the mouthguard stage is that I probably have had bruxism all along. I have one part of the bone structure in my mouth that grew bigger possibly from clenching over the years. In the end, that only worked well for maybe 6 months before I started noticing the trouble again, so I went for the cpap. I had to make it work and ended up working with a heated hose and the nasal pillow style nosepiece. I'm pretty good now. (one more piece of advice, keep it clean with alcohol and you'll be much better off)

madaxe_again 6y ago
I had trouble for years with both sleep apnoea and bruxing in my sleep. I tried all sorts, from mouthguards to oximeter alarms, and nothing really helped, if anything, they generally worsened my sleep - I'm a light sleeper at the best of times. A visit to the doctor revealed that I was pre-diabetic, and he advised that I shed some weight - I was 250lbs, and I brought myself down to 180lbs over about six months. The sleep apnoea and bruxism both went away with the weight, and a decade on, haven't returned. I suspect that the additional weight was making my airway collapse in the night, and that would then result in me bruxing as I quietly asphyxiated in my sleep, before I'd wake up gasping in a puddle of sweat. I had thought for the longest time that the root cause was stress, and that it was therefore untreatable without major lifestyle changes which weren't tenable at the time - but the stress went on for years after I lost the weight, without bruxing or apnoea. I suppose, at root, the stress was the cause, as I sure as hell comfort ate my way out of my misery and into size 40 jeans. I do, once in a blue moon, still do the choke and grind routine, but it's usually only if I've gone to bed really quite drunk. Obviously this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, as sleep apnoea and bruxism can be brought about by any number of causes, but this was a solution for me, and might be for others who are in the same situation I was in.

elric 6y ago

Sleep apnea is a problem for two reasons: low oxygen saturation is Very Bad, and frequent arousals are Bad. Sounds like you've managed to address the first issue, but without a sleep study it's impossible to say for sure whether you've addressed the second problem. Most apneas typically occur during REM sleep, when muscle tone is at its lowest and airways are more likely to collapse. If you frequently wake up during REM (even if it's a micro-arousal), your sleep architecture is broken. It boggles the mind that sleep apnea severity is diagnosed on number of events (AHI) without considering when those events occur. Maybe you have an AHI of 3, but if they all happen during 2 hours of REM, you basically wake up 24 times during REM, which sounds a lot worse than 3 events per hour. Sauce: have sleep apnea, hate the machine, but have learned to live with it.

flurie 6y ago
Right, but the AHI is specifically to aid in initial and ongoing treatment. If you’re hitting a certain threshold of events with a PAP, it probably means you need more pressure, even if that AHI can indicate a fairly large range in reduction of sleep quality.
Viliam1234 6y ago
I fixed my sleep apnea using a Velumount device, which is simply a piece of wire you stick in your throat before you go to sleep, and it keeps the important part of throat unblocked during the night. One of those things that truly deserve to be called "life hacks". Learning how to use it is a lot of "fun" (expect to spend half of the day vomiting until you learn how to insert it properly), but afterwards it works like magic. I would recommend to try it, and verify by oxymeter how it works.
- ariste 6y ago
  I would love to try this, but I don't believe they are available in the US. Are they custom made?
  - TheCapeGreek 6y ago
    According to velumount.ch (and the other location sites), it does need a fitting session to mould it. I wasn't able to find a price list for my country and the doctor who would do the fitting is in another city, so it is pricey overall it seems. Especially if the Swiss pricing is anything to go by. The product itself seems like it's supposed to be malleable to adjust to the individual, which kind of makes the fitting session + workshop seem like rent seeking. Just give me an instruction booklet with FAQ and warnings.

amelius 6y ago

> Perhaps a muscle tension sensing device I gave a muscle tension based anti bruxism device called GrindAlert a serious try perhaps a decade ago, and it didn't help me.

hh3k0 6y ago

> When breathing was obstructed, my blood oxygen dropped. The oxymeter beeped and woke me up. That's basically what your body already does natively, though.

SubiculumCode 6y ago

CPAP is not something to avoid but to embrace. I love my machine. I sleep on my back again. I hardly wake during the night. I can breath fresh hair even with a pillow over my head. It's just lovely.