5 ms·

CNBC title: "Trump fans..." HN title: "Conservatives..." Are conservatives regarded as indistinguishable from Trump fans these days?

Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
The HN title is more accurate and less click baity.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  I don't know about that. This is fairly obviously an attempt at doing an end-run around Trump's tweets being labelled fake or doctored (if they are) and to have a Trump friendly medium to reach the voters ahead of the elections so they get to control the message. Trump's brand of politics has relatively little to do with the conservatives as we've come to know them through the ages, it's more of a takeover of a political party by an outsider than anything else. Many people who call themselves conservatives are loath to be associated with Trump and his cabal. Though of course they likely don't mind ramming through some supreme court justices that will vote along their preferences.
  - jfengel 6y ago
    He got 60 million votes in the last election, and nearly all will do so again. They may loathe him but they loathe him less than any liberal opponent. He sees that as support and acts accordingly. It may not be "conservatism" in some outdated sense of the term, but people who use that label vote for him in droves. Linking the two is not unfair.
  - SamReidHughes 6y ago
    Not at all. Trump's actual governing has been conservative. Not that there haven't been some awful bits, but it extends beyond judges to cabinet appointees, military posture (no new wars), stances on open borders, and miscellaneous stuff, like federal hiring based on skills, not degrees. He's governed more conservatively than the last two Republican presidents.
na85 6y ago
>Are conservatives regarded as indistinguishable from Trump fans these days? In what meaningful way can they be distinguished?
- pnako 6y ago
  There are conservatives outside the US (although some, or many, are also Trump fans).
  - na85 6y ago
    I'm Canadian and most of our conservatives are just milquetoast Trumpists.
- dx87 6y ago
  Favoring a certain style of government doesn't mean you have to be a fan of every politician advocating for that style of government. It's like a quote from one of the main characters on The Newsroom. >First off, I'm a registered Republican. I only seem liberal because I believe that hurricanes are caused by high barrometric pressure, and not gay marriage.
  - na85 6y ago
    I've seen that series as well, and what it fails to portray is that for all intents and purposes, the social conservatives define the Republican party. To be a social liberal and still vote Republican is to be manipulated. The Republican party hasn't been about responsible small government in decades.
antidaily 6y ago
No. Plenty of conservatives outside of the Trump bubble. But not many on Parlor, I’d wager.
nordsieck 6y ago
> Are conservatives regarded as indistinguishable from Trump fans these days? In the US, sometimes conservative is used as a synonym for Republican in the same way that liberal is used as a synonym for Democrat. There is also a different political science meaning for the words conservative and liberal that don't map to the two major political parties.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
"Trump fans" is just very emotionally loaded language, and "conservatives" seems like a pretty reasonable neutral replacement.
hellotomyrars 6y ago
Internationally? No. Domestically in the US? I would generally say yes. It's hard to argue that Trump hasn't entirely co-opted what's left of the Republican party and conservatives for the most part. How much of that is self-serving is hard to say. I wouldn't be surprised that 5-10 years down the line you have a lot of people on the GOP side who change their tune on Trump once he no longer has power because as it currently stands, going against Trump on the right side of the aisle is generally political suicide. Currently loyalty is rewarded above all else in the Trump era of the conservationism, and so if you want to stay in the game, you generally tow the line. Personally I find it pretty gross. but in a lot of ways it's also laid bare the extreme level of cronyism in politics. When someone who was harshly and openly critical (rightly so, even) of you before you held power is now your public mouthpiece and saying the exact opposite of what they said before that was the case it's hard not see that in action. I find it hugely depressing that the GOP has become the party of Trump, not just because I think Trump is terrible, but because it's just served to increase the divide between the population in general.
caconym_ 6y ago
Pro-Trump voices seem to have taken over the discussion in most "conservative" spaces on the internet that I've found, so I don't think the implied equivalence here is a bad generalization to make in the context. Since they're so poorly behaved, they have to seek out alternative spaces that will tolerate their misbehavior. r/T_D didn't get quarantined on Reddit because Reddit has it out for Trump supporters—it got quarantined because it's a hate-filled shithole where bizarre and paranoid ignorance, racism, misogyny, and rampant glorification of hypothetical violence against their political enemies form the baseline for discussion.
jtsnow 6y ago
Conservatives are running the hardest hitting anti-Trump ads this election year (see The Lincoln Project). Conservatives are split into 3 groups: Trumpers, those hoping the Republican party will just return to its roots after Trump, and those advocating for a new conservative movement because the Republican party is beyond saving.
sdinsn 6y ago
> Are conservatives regarded as indistinguishable from Trump fans these days? Yes

Acrobatic_Road 6y ago

The HN title is more accurate and less click baity.

jacquesm 6y ago
I don't know about that. This is fairly obviously an attempt at doing an end-run around Trump's tweets being labelled fake or doctored (if they are) and to have a Trump friendly medium to reach the voters ahead of the elections so they get to control the message. Trump's brand of politics has relatively little to do with the conservatives as we've come to know them through the ages, it's more of a takeover of a political party by an outsider than anything else. Many people who call themselves conservatives are loath to be associated with Trump and his cabal. Though of course they likely don't mind ramming through some supreme court justices that will vote along their preferences.
- jfengel 6y ago
  He got 60 million votes in the last election, and nearly all will do so again. They may loathe him but they loathe him less than any liberal opponent. He sees that as support and acts accordingly. It may not be "conservatism" in some outdated sense of the term, but people who use that label vote for him in droves. Linking the two is not unfair.
- SamReidHughes 6y ago
  Not at all. Trump's actual governing has been conservative. Not that there haven't been some awful bits, but it extends beyond judges to cabinet appointees, military posture (no new wars), stances on open borders, and miscellaneous stuff, like federal hiring based on skills, not degrees. He's governed more conservatively than the last two Republican presidents.

na85 6y ago

>Are conservatives regarded as indistinguishable from Trump fans these days? In what meaningful way can they be distinguished?

pnako 6y ago
There are conservatives outside the US (although some, or many, are also Trump fans).
- na85 6y ago
  I'm Canadian and most of our conservatives are just milquetoast Trumpists.
dx87 6y ago
Favoring a certain style of government doesn't mean you have to be a fan of every politician advocating for that style of government. It's like a quote from one of the main characters on The Newsroom. >First off, I'm a registered Republican. I only seem liberal because I believe that hurricanes are caused by high barrometric pressure, and not gay marriage.
- na85 6y ago
  I've seen that series as well, and what it fails to portray is that for all intents and purposes, the social conservatives define the Republican party. To be a social liberal and still vote Republican is to be manipulated. The Republican party hasn't been about responsible small government in decades.

antidaily 6y ago

No. Plenty of conservatives outside of the Trump bubble. But not many on Parlor, I’d wager.

nordsieck 6y ago

> Are conservatives regarded as indistinguishable from Trump fans these days? In the US, sometimes conservative is used as a synonym for Republican in the same way that liberal is used as a synonym for Democrat. There is also a different political science meaning for the words conservative and liberal that don't map to the two major political parties.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

"Trump fans" is just very emotionally loaded language, and "conservatives" seems like a pretty reasonable neutral replacement.

hellotomyrars 6y ago

Internationally? No. Domestically in the US? I would generally say yes. It's hard to argue that Trump hasn't entirely co-opted what's left of the Republican party and conservatives for the most part. How much of that is self-serving is hard to say. I wouldn't be surprised that 5-10 years down the line you have a lot of people on the GOP side who change their tune on Trump once he no longer has power because as it currently stands, going against Trump on the right side of the aisle is generally political suicide. Currently loyalty is rewarded above all else in the Trump era of the conservationism, and so if you want to stay in the game, you generally tow the line. Personally I find it pretty gross. but in a lot of ways it's also laid bare the extreme level of cronyism in politics. When someone who was harshly and openly critical (rightly so, even) of you before you held power is now your public mouthpiece and saying the exact opposite of what they said before that was the case it's hard not see that in action. I find it hugely depressing that the GOP has become the party of Trump, not just because I think Trump is terrible, but because it's just served to increase the divide between the population in general.

caconym_ 6y ago

Pro-Trump voices seem to have taken over the discussion in most "conservative" spaces on the internet that I've found, so I don't think the implied equivalence here is a bad generalization to make in the context. Since they're so poorly behaved, they have to seek out alternative spaces that will tolerate their misbehavior. r/T_D didn't get quarantined on Reddit because Reddit has it out for Trump supporters—it got quarantined because it's a hate-filled shithole where bizarre and paranoid ignorance, racism, misogyny, and rampant glorification of hypothetical violence against their political enemies form the baseline for discussion.

jtsnow 6y ago

Conservatives are running the hardest hitting anti-Trump ads this election year (see The Lincoln Project). Conservatives are split into 3 groups: Trumpers, those hoping the Republican party will just return to its roots after Trump, and those advocating for a new conservative movement because the Republican party is beyond saving.

sdinsn 6y ago

> Are conservatives regarded as indistinguishable from Trump fans these days? Yes