7 ms·

The "mob justice" we have now isn't remotely as bad as it used to be, so it's not accurate to characterize it as a "descent". We really are on a long steady ups

The "mob justice" we have now isn't remotely as bad as it used to be, so it's not accurate to characterize it as a "descent". We really are on a long steady upslope (still with more room for improvement). Hell, it wasn't even that many decades ago that lynchings were commonplace. And that's a much worse form of mob justice than outraged tweet brigades that occasionally get someone fired.

mellosouls 6y ago
There have been plenty of videos circling showing mobs during the recent riots beating people half and fully to death. Mob justice needs to be condemned wherever it comes from. That it is more a problem coming from the left at the moment does not mean its ok to let it pass.
- RickS 6y ago
  > and tbh your argument reads a little bit like "well now its our turn" I'm not sure who "our" is, here, but I don't read it with that tone regardless. > There have been plenty of videos circling showing mobs during the recent riots beating people half and fully to death. Unless you're talking about police officers doing the beating, which doesn't seem the case given your "left" remark, can you substantiate this claim? If so, how? I believe your comment is out of sync with reality, but sincerely welcome quantitative data to adjust my views.
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    You really should make an attempt to reply to comments as they are, rather than insisting on quoting sentences removed. Here is some video evidence to assist in adjusting your views as requested. Personally, I advise you (and other readers) not to watch them; this sort of thing isn't psychologically healthy. But it exists and its as appalling as the police brutality - but you don't seem to see so much of this in the mainstream media for some reason. https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1275104256643792901 https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1275104256643792901 https://twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1273444656047513601 https://twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/12734446560475136...
    - RickS 6y ago
      > You really should make an attempt to reply to comments as they are, rather than insisting on quoting sentences removed. I did. At the time I began my reply, it was in there. One of the reasons I replied was that sentence – it modifies the context of the rest of your words. I think that sentence was pretty messed up. Perhaps that's why you removed it. I skimmed each video in the threads you posted. Of them, two of the first (adults) and none of the second (with kids) appear to potentially take place in the recent riots. I'm not saying that violence doesn't occur there – it certainly does, but your original quote was: > There have been plenty of videos circling showing mobs during the recent riots beating people half and fully to death. (emphasis mine). The videos you posted of racial violence are tragic, and I don't question their authenticity. But they don't substantiate your earlier claim about the frequency of violence from rioters. This is the last I'm going to say about it – I regret replying in the first place. This wasn't productive. My bad.
      - mellosouls 6y ago
        I know the feeling.
rbecker 6y ago
Lynchings were never commonplace. There were 3446 recorded lynchings of blacks in 1882-1968 [1]. That is 40 per year. We don't know how many were not recorded, but lets say only 1 in 5 was, for a total of 200 per year. That's thirteen times less than the 2018 black-on-black homicide rate, and less than half of the black-on-white homicide rate [2]. [1] https://www.naacp.org/history-of-lynchings/ https://www.naacp.org/history-of-lynchings/ [2] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
- monocasa 6y ago
  I'm not sure how you can trust the stats when even recently, black activists have been found hanging from trees and it's just ruled suicide. https://www.naacp.org/latest/ferguson-black-lives-matter-activists-naacp-continue-demand-answers-alleged-hanging-death-son/ https://www.naacp.org/latest/ferguson-black-lives-matter-act...
  - rbecker 6y ago
    > how you can trust the stats In fact I trust them so little I quintupled them for my analysis. And despite the Black suicide rate being 2.5x lower than the white suicide rate [1], you would still expect an average of 2 Blacks (and 24 whites) to commit suicide by suffocation/hanging per day [2]. [1] https://www.sprc.org/scope/racial-ethnic-disparities https://www.sprc.org/scope/racial-ethnic-disparities [2] http://www.lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide http://www.lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-sui...
    - monocasa 6y ago
      So 600 black suicides by hanging a year out of ~38 million black americans, or a 0.0016% chance of an individual black american dying a year by suicidal hanging. So when it clusters around black activists, that's pretty telling. And to be clear, lynching is a power thing, not a genocide thing. The point isn't to kill all blacks but to make an example of the ones that 'don't know their place'. To 'hammer down the nails that stick out'.
murgindrag 6y ago
Modern mob justice means the rest of your life is ruined. It's not just a firing; you can't get a new job from then on. Internet oustings will likely last forever. And when the evidence is a photo or video, with inaccurate context, innocents are getting steamrolled. This is a problem. And even if it was less of a problem than it was a decade ago -- and I don't think it is -- we should still look for ways to fix it.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  Can you name a person who has been "cancelled" for illegitimate reasons, and unable to find a new job in a reasonable time? James Damore is gainfully employed. Steve Hsu is still a tenured professor, Justine Sacco had a new job within a month, George Zimmerman is able to make a better living than most by selling murder memorabilia.
  - Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
    Joshua Conner Moon. https://warosu.org/g/thread/S61710346?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=e0b565aefc4a833a4b3022f5b2bdb429b6ce320b-1593284388-0-ATCS8sEhc7RcXjiyWlsi0t0ldIu9dWzGQv7RlLJa_7t1y_A-dGcsnz_U1aSTgeyD3qI29jw_XubwMRZMfeYRCpN5t1wh_gLHZUnmsImg_0nlfNhqMkgfghe5B_ax05Zlwvd8BAdXR8fjIj2krROSakMVFlzsgEt-4VqQZ6xMlKuD0kJnFt0fhGtJlB6WxOlcYinlACY7f7U88OEZEKmNv_wLvg3NTvfmYwXXZoNYGYd40YhH61jtUwGXtaoBWxmUd5hAPGOj1NdyxyyikoyuC9vxCxW3d-mH9K9SqBEimQiQ#p61711718 https://warosu.org/g/thread/S61710346?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=e0... Read this whole thread. He has been defamed as a pedophile by a stalker, and has been denied several six figure paying jobs 3-4 interviews into the hiring process explicitly because one guy decided to cancel him. The stalker says he monitors court records to prevent Josh from restarting his career by changing his name. Josh is now unemployable and living in Serbia. Bio on the stalker: Samuel Collingwood Smith is a yellow journalist who specializes in defamation and stalking. After a brief stint as a British council member, he publicly embarrassed himself by claiming his political enemies were sexual abusers of children. Without a job, he indulged in an obsession with Evanescence and attempted to become ring leader of Internet fan clubs about Amy Lee. In his quest to become her #1 fan, he would bully, harass, and stalk underage girls who held forum moderator positions above him. More than five years later, he threatens them legally if they speak on what abuse he submitted them to. After a falling out with Evanescence staff, he accused the band of being child pornographers and was forced into a permanent contract which requires he never speak of Amy Lee or Evanescence again. Despite parliamentary petitions to invalidate the non-disclosure agreement, he is legally bound to this day. Since then, Samuel Collingwood Smith has trailblazed the Internet leaving behind countless smear campaigns purporting anyone he does not like to be involved in child pornography somehow. An emotionally unstable adult-child who focuses much of his time on GamerGate and relevant topics, he is well known as a public menace to local constables and courts. Writing under multiple pen names, including Vordrak and Matthew Hopkins, the Witchfinder General, he romanticizes the English witch hunter by the same name. He hides behind this intimidating Internet persona and openly calls himself a terrorist. His mission statement is "to expose corruption and terrorise the guilty without worrying too much about due process."
bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
> isn't remotely as bad as it used to be, so it's not accurate to characterize it as a "descent". What a "so". There's simultaneously so much confidence and so much innumeracy packed into it. It's impressive how much a mere two letters can communicate.

mellosouls 6y ago

There have been plenty of videos circling showing mobs during the recent riots beating people half and fully to death. Mob justice needs to be condemned wherever it comes from. That it is more a problem coming from the left at the moment does not mean its ok to let it pass.

RickS 6y ago
> and tbh your argument reads a little bit like "well now its our turn" I'm not sure who "our" is, here, but I don't read it with that tone regardless. > There have been plenty of videos circling showing mobs during the recent riots beating people half and fully to death. Unless you're talking about police officers doing the beating, which doesn't seem the case given your "left" remark, can you substantiate this claim? If so, how? I believe your comment is out of sync with reality, but sincerely welcome quantitative data to adjust my views.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  You really should make an attempt to reply to comments as they are, rather than insisting on quoting sentences removed. Here is some video evidence to assist in adjusting your views as requested. Personally, I advise you (and other readers) not to watch them; this sort of thing isn't psychologically healthy. But it exists and its as appalling as the police brutality - but you don't seem to see so much of this in the mainstream media for some reason. https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1275104256643792901 https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1275104256643792901 https://twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1273444656047513601 https://twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/12734446560475136...
  - RickS 6y ago
    > You really should make an attempt to reply to comments as they are, rather than insisting on quoting sentences removed. I did. At the time I began my reply, it was in there. One of the reasons I replied was that sentence – it modifies the context of the rest of your words. I think that sentence was pretty messed up. Perhaps that's why you removed it. I skimmed each video in the threads you posted. Of them, two of the first (adults) and none of the second (with kids) appear to potentially take place in the recent riots. I'm not saying that violence doesn't occur there – it certainly does, but your original quote was: > There have been plenty of videos circling showing mobs during the recent riots beating people half and fully to death. (emphasis mine). The videos you posted of racial violence are tragic, and I don't question their authenticity. But they don't substantiate your earlier claim about the frequency of violence from rioters. This is the last I'm going to say about it – I regret replying in the first place. This wasn't productive. My bad.
    - mellosouls 6y ago
      I know the feeling.

rbecker 6y ago

Lynchings were never commonplace. There were 3446 recorded lynchings of blacks in 1882-1968 [1]. That is 40 per year. We don't know how many were not recorded, but lets say only 1 in 5 was, for a total of 200 per year. That's thirteen times less than the 2018 black-on-black homicide rate, and less than half of the black-on-white homicide rate [2]. [1] https://www.naacp.org/history-of-lynchings/ https://www.naacp.org/history-of-lynchings/ [2] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

monocasa 6y ago
I'm not sure how you can trust the stats when even recently, black activists have been found hanging from trees and it's just ruled suicide. https://www.naacp.org/latest/ferguson-black-lives-matter-activists-naacp-continue-demand-answers-alleged-hanging-death-son/ https://www.naacp.org/latest/ferguson-black-lives-matter-act...
- rbecker 6y ago
  > how you can trust the stats In fact I trust them so little I quintupled them for my analysis. And despite the Black suicide rate being 2.5x lower than the white suicide rate [1], you would still expect an average of 2 Blacks (and 24 whites) to commit suicide by suffocation/hanging per day [2]. [1] https://www.sprc.org/scope/racial-ethnic-disparities https://www.sprc.org/scope/racial-ethnic-disparities [2] http://www.lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide http://www.lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-sui...
  - monocasa 6y ago
    So 600 black suicides by hanging a year out of ~38 million black americans, or a 0.0016% chance of an individual black american dying a year by suicidal hanging. So when it clusters around black activists, that's pretty telling. And to be clear, lynching is a power thing, not a genocide thing. The point isn't to kill all blacks but to make an example of the ones that 'don't know their place'. To 'hammer down the nails that stick out'.

murgindrag 6y ago

Modern mob justice means the rest of your life is ruined. It's not just a firing; you can't get a new job from then on. Internet oustings will likely last forever. And when the evidence is a photo or video, with inaccurate context, innocents are getting steamrolled. This is a problem. And even if it was less of a problem than it was a decade ago -- and I don't think it is -- we should still look for ways to fix it.

joshuamorton 6y ago
Can you name a person who has been "cancelled" for illegitimate reasons, and unable to find a new job in a reasonable time? James Damore is gainfully employed. Steve Hsu is still a tenured professor, Justine Sacco had a new job within a month, George Zimmerman is able to make a better living than most by selling murder memorabilia.
- Acrobatic_Road 6y ago
  Joshua Conner Moon. https://warosu.org/g/thread/S61710346?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=e0b565aefc4a833a4b3022f5b2bdb429b6ce320b-1593284388-0-ATCS8sEhc7RcXjiyWlsi0t0ldIu9dWzGQv7RlLJa_7t1y_A-dGcsnz_U1aSTgeyD3qI29jw_XubwMRZMfeYRCpN5t1wh_gLHZUnmsImg_0nlfNhqMkgfghe5B_ax05Zlwvd8BAdXR8fjIj2krROSakMVFlzsgEt-4VqQZ6xMlKuD0kJnFt0fhGtJlB6WxOlcYinlACY7f7U88OEZEKmNv_wLvg3NTvfmYwXXZoNYGYd40YhH61jtUwGXtaoBWxmUd5hAPGOj1NdyxyyikoyuC9vxCxW3d-mH9K9SqBEimQiQ#p61711718 https://warosu.org/g/thread/S61710346?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=e0... Read this whole thread. He has been defamed as a pedophile by a stalker, and has been denied several six figure paying jobs 3-4 interviews into the hiring process explicitly because one guy decided to cancel him. The stalker says he monitors court records to prevent Josh from restarting his career by changing his name. Josh is now unemployable and living in Serbia. Bio on the stalker: Samuel Collingwood Smith is a yellow journalist who specializes in defamation and stalking. After a brief stint as a British council member, he publicly embarrassed himself by claiming his political enemies were sexual abusers of children. Without a job, he indulged in an obsession with Evanescence and attempted to become ring leader of Internet fan clubs about Amy Lee. In his quest to become her #1 fan, he would bully, harass, and stalk underage girls who held forum moderator positions above him. More than five years later, he threatens them legally if they speak on what abuse he submitted them to. After a falling out with Evanescence staff, he accused the band of being child pornographers and was forced into a permanent contract which requires he never speak of Amy Lee or Evanescence again. Despite parliamentary petitions to invalidate the non-disclosure agreement, he is legally bound to this day. Since then, Samuel Collingwood Smith has trailblazed the Internet leaving behind countless smear campaigns purporting anyone he does not like to be involved in child pornography somehow. An emotionally unstable adult-child who focuses much of his time on GamerGate and relevant topics, he is well known as a public menace to local constables and courts. Writing under multiple pen names, including Vordrak and Matthew Hopkins, the Witchfinder General, he romanticizes the English witch hunter by the same name. He hides behind this intimidating Internet persona and openly calls himself a terrorist. His mission statement is "to expose corruption and terrorise the guilty without worrying too much about due process."

bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago

> isn't remotely as bad as it used to be, so it's not accurate to characterize it as a "descent". What a "so". There's simultaneously so much confidence and so much innumeracy packed into it. It's impressive how much a mere two letters can communicate.