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Patient 91: How Vietnam saved a British pilot and kept a clean Covid-19 sheet

Nginx487 6y ago
I'm an expat in the HCMC. I remember significant amount of skepticism by the beginning of the outbreak around COVID-19 related news, as both expats and locals suspected state censorship involved, like it happened in China about a month before. However, by the 2nd week of quarantine, even skeptics had to admit that outbreak has been handled with the same efficiency as in Taiwan or New Zealand. By that moment borders are still closed, and it's hard to back to my home country, however, being able to walk without a mask and a constant fear to get infected really worth a lot. My sincere gratitude to Vietnamese health officials and medical workers who made it possible. Of course, significant part of the success belongs to people who were following social distancing rules, wearing masks (which is almost a part of Asian culture), businesses that were closed on an early stage of outbreak - measures that other countries were very hesitant to do. And that successful handling of the pandemic has already brought significant benefits to the state, as international investors and manufacturers consider moving to Vietnam from China, something they were looking forward to, as China's biggest competitor in the region.
- lucasjans 6y ago
  I'm also an expat here and I can second this. Trust in the government is at an all time high. Domestic travel is up 25% over last year. While many retail businesses suffered during the lockdown, life has mostly returned to normal. Albeit, with closed borders.
  - Nginx487 6y ago
    >Trust in the government is at an all time high Sure, after successful handling the pandemic. Was a nice surprise for me as well, especially compared to China
  - lazylizard 6y ago
    If its any consolation closed borders doesn't bother them as much as the thais who are far more dependent on tourism. Or the singaporeans , who do far more travelling..
  - bluekite2000 6y ago
    >Trust in the government is at an all time high. Just to clarify you mean trust in the government to handle the pandemic right?
- NicoJuicy 6y ago
  Isn't Vietnam too small to be a real competitor to China? I also had the feeling that Vietnam would be more of a redirection for "Made in China", only with the Vietnam label stamped on. I think the only real competitor would be India. But I could be wrong ofc. Feel free to argument.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - adventured 6y ago
    > Isn't Vietnam too small to be a real competitor to China? No. They're too small to compete with China at everything at the same time. They can compete effectively in various industries. Samsung is utilizing Vietnam for 50% of their smartphone & tablet manufacturing for example. Vietnam is a good option for manufacturing diversification. With continued improvements in automation, it should be possible to further scale manufacturing in smaller nations in the coming decades. Jan 2015 [1]: "Samsung Electronics is currently manufacturing 50 percent of its mobile phones in Vietnam and only 8 percent in Korea. At present, Samsung Electronics is running six mobile phone manufacturing facilities in the six countries of Vietnam, China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, and Korea. The two plants in Vietnam have a combined annual production capacity of 240 million units. The two factories in China have a maximum capacity of 150 million phones. However, Samsung is looking to cut their production by approximately 40 million in view of the high labor costs in China." Nov 2019 [2]: "Around 50% of Samsung's smartphones and tablets are produced in Vietnam and exported to 128 countries and territories. As of present, 58% of Samsung's global smartphone sales globally come from its production facilities in Vietnam, according to Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc." [1] http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=8785 http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=8... [2] http://hanoitimes.vn/58-of-samsung-smartphones-revenue-come-from-vietnam-production-facilities-pm-300270.html http://hanoitimes.vn/58-of-samsung-smartphones-revenue-come-...
    - NicoJuicy 6y ago
      That's just 1 very big company. I am talking about the majority of companies that is producing in China today.
garyclarke27 6y ago
Surprising how little publicity ECMO machines (Think heart lung machine without the heart) have had. They are rare but seem to have a much higher success rate 75% than ventilators 35% for covid ICU patients - so even though they cost twice as much $100k, they are well worth it on a cost per life saved.
- herendin2 6y ago
  Though I agree with you, I think this patient was receiving mechanical ventilation as well as ECMO. I don't know if they were simultaneous Edit: Another plus for ECMO is that ventilation procedure creates a serious infection risk for doctors and nurses, but ECMO doesn't. Losing a doctor costs a lot more than $100K
- rjsw 6y ago
  There were reports from Italy early on that ECMO machines were important.
- imglorp 6y ago
  If you need ECMO for any reason you are seriously, deathly, ill: it is a last resort with long odds. It has many complications, is expensive, and there are ethical questions to ask. Eg, http://www.bioethics.net/2019/05/is-it-time-for-the-dne-do-not-ecmo/ http://www.bioethics.net/2019/05/is-it-time-for-the-dne-do-n...
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  ECMO uses immense amount of resources, both in scarce equipment and trained staff to monitor and manage. Great to say “this one case we won’t let die”. Useless in “we have 50k people who need this” scenarios.
pjc50 6y ago
It's very noticeable how "middle development" countries (east Asia, eastern Europe) seem to have coped very well with the virus, while several of the "advanced" economies haven't, and the US is worst hit entirely. None of the "advanced" political leaders want to learn from this. It seems to be arriving in South America now.
- magnio 6y ago
  South Korea and Japan are definitely not "middle development countries".
  - pjc50 6y ago
    I did not include a full list or mention either of those, because I knew that any generalization would be met with nitpicking.
- brutusborn 6y ago
  I think it is more likely that wealthy countries simply have more resources for testing, so the stats look worse. Also more resources for collecting stats means that deaths are more likely to be counted. There are a lot of wealthy countries, like Australia and New Zealand, that have had more success than most.
  - notahacker 6y ago
    That's part of it, but it's also the case that wealthy countries have a lot more travel, especially internationally, to spread the disease beyond initial outbreak centres. Asia also has much more practice in taking pandemic threats seriously and responding early and appropriately.
  - onetimemanytime 6y ago
    OK. Suppose USA had 100 cases a day due to very little testing. How do we hide those 120K deaths? https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
tus88 6y ago
Why the fuck would Vietnam count some Brit on their death tally?
- DanBC 6y ago
  Because you count deaths where they happen, or where they're registered.
- vajrabum 6y ago
  I'm genuinely curious why you would think they wouldn't? This guy was working as a pilot at an airline in Vietnam and is a resident.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Well, he didn't die, so he wasn't counted on the death tally? But if he did, he would. This is not complicated.
coconut_crab 6y ago
This is a photo I took at one of Vietnam's jam packed airports a few days ago: https://imgur.com/a/9dn5AJh https://imgur.com/a/9dn5AJh Not many people will believe that a poor country like Vietnam, led by a single party in authoritarian style, can suppress Covid-19 with zero deaths. But for people who live here, being able to travel freely is the greatest proof that the approach worked. (still I find it weird that covid-19 seems to be much weaker in South East Asia, even Laos or Cambodia aren't being hit that hard).
- pvaldes 6y ago
  Not weird at all, is an autochtonous organism in Asia, therefore they had chances to being exposed in the past to similar viruses, and they have lots of young population probably also. Has happened before with american natives dying in mass from new european diseases, for example
- ejanus 6y ago
  It also seems weaker in Africa. I am still waiting for someone to explain the reason for the situation.

I'm an expat in the HCMC. I remember significant amount of skepticism by the beginning of the outbreak around COVID-19 related news, as both expats and locals suspected state censorship involved, like it happened in China about a month before. However, by the 2nd week of quarantine, even skeptics had to admit that outbreak has been handled with the same efficiency as in Taiwan or New Zealand. By that moment borders are still closed, and it's hard to back to my home country, however, being able to walk without a mask and a constant fear to get infected really worth a lot. My sincere gratitude to Vietnamese health officials and medical workers who made it possible. Of course, significant part of the success belongs to people who were following social distancing rules, wearing masks (which is almost a part of Asian culture), businesses that were closed on an early stage of outbreak - measures that other countries were very hesitant to do. And that successful handling of the pandemic has already brought significant benefits to the state, as international investors and manufacturers consider moving to Vietnam from China, something they were looking forward to, as China's biggest competitor in the region.

lucasjans 6y ago
I'm also an expat here and I can second this. Trust in the government is at an all time high. Domestic travel is up 25% over last year. While many retail businesses suffered during the lockdown, life has mostly returned to normal. Albeit, with closed borders.
- Nginx487 6y ago
  >Trust in the government is at an all time high Sure, after successful handling the pandemic. Was a nice surprise for me as well, especially compared to China
- lazylizard 6y ago
  If its any consolation closed borders doesn't bother them as much as the thais who are far more dependent on tourism. Or the singaporeans , who do far more travelling..
- bluekite2000 6y ago
  >Trust in the government is at an all time high. Just to clarify you mean trust in the government to handle the pandemic right?
NicoJuicy 6y ago
Isn't Vietnam too small to be a real competitor to China? I also had the feeling that Vietnam would be more of a redirection for "Made in China", only with the Vietnam label stamped on. I think the only real competitor would be India. But I could be wrong ofc. Feel free to argument.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- adventured 6y ago
  > Isn't Vietnam too small to be a real competitor to China? No. They're too small to compete with China at everything at the same time. They can compete effectively in various industries. Samsung is utilizing Vietnam for 50% of their smartphone & tablet manufacturing for example. Vietnam is a good option for manufacturing diversification. With continued improvements in automation, it should be possible to further scale manufacturing in smaller nations in the coming decades. Jan 2015 [1]: "Samsung Electronics is currently manufacturing 50 percent of its mobile phones in Vietnam and only 8 percent in Korea. At present, Samsung Electronics is running six mobile phone manufacturing facilities in the six countries of Vietnam, China, India, Brazil, Indonesia, and Korea. The two plants in Vietnam have a combined annual production capacity of 240 million units. The two factories in China have a maximum capacity of 150 million phones. However, Samsung is looking to cut their production by approximately 40 million in view of the high labor costs in China." Nov 2019 [2]: "Around 50% of Samsung's smartphones and tablets are produced in Vietnam and exported to 128 countries and territories. As of present, 58% of Samsung's global smartphone sales globally come from its production facilities in Vietnam, according to Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc." [1] http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=8785 http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=8... [2] http://hanoitimes.vn/58-of-samsung-smartphones-revenue-come-from-vietnam-production-facilities-pm-300270.html http://hanoitimes.vn/58-of-samsung-smartphones-revenue-come-...
  - NicoJuicy 6y ago
    That's just 1 very big company. I am talking about the majority of companies that is producing in China today.

garyclarke27 6y ago

Surprising how little publicity ECMO machines (Think heart lung machine without the heart) have had. They are rare but seem to have a much higher success rate 75% than ventilators 35% for covid ICU patients - so even though they cost twice as much $100k, they are well worth it on a cost per life saved.

herendin2 6y ago
Though I agree with you, I think this patient was receiving mechanical ventilation as well as ECMO. I don't know if they were simultaneous Edit: Another plus for ECMO is that ventilation procedure creates a serious infection risk for doctors and nurses, but ECMO doesn't. Losing a doctor costs a lot more than $100K
rjsw 6y ago
There were reports from Italy early on that ECMO machines were important.
imglorp 6y ago
If you need ECMO for any reason you are seriously, deathly, ill: it is a last resort with long odds. It has many complications, is expensive, and there are ethical questions to ask. Eg, http://www.bioethics.net/2019/05/is-it-time-for-the-dne-do-not-ecmo/ http://www.bioethics.net/2019/05/is-it-time-for-the-dne-do-n...
ceejayoz 6y ago
ECMO uses immense amount of resources, both in scarce equipment and trained staff to monitor and manage. Great to say “this one case we won’t let die”. Useless in “we have 50k people who need this” scenarios.

pjc50 6y ago

It's very noticeable how "middle development" countries (east Asia, eastern Europe) seem to have coped very well with the virus, while several of the "advanced" economies haven't, and the US is worst hit entirely. None of the "advanced" political leaders want to learn from this. It seems to be arriving in South America now.

magnio 6y ago
South Korea and Japan are definitely not "middle development countries".
- pjc50 6y ago
  I did not include a full list or mention either of those, because I knew that any generalization would be met with nitpicking.
brutusborn 6y ago
I think it is more likely that wealthy countries simply have more resources for testing, so the stats look worse. Also more resources for collecting stats means that deaths are more likely to be counted. There are a lot of wealthy countries, like Australia and New Zealand, that have had more success than most.
- notahacker 6y ago
  That's part of it, but it's also the case that wealthy countries have a lot more travel, especially internationally, to spread the disease beyond initial outbreak centres. Asia also has much more practice in taking pandemic threats seriously and responding early and appropriately.
- onetimemanytime 6y ago
  OK. Suppose USA had 100 cases a day due to very little testing. How do we hide those 120K deaths? https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

tus88 6y ago

Why the fuck would Vietnam count some Brit on their death tally?

DanBC 6y ago
Because you count deaths where they happen, or where they're registered.
vajrabum 6y ago
I'm genuinely curious why you would think they wouldn't? This guy was working as a pilot at an airline in Vietnam and is a resident.
pjc50 6y ago
Well, he didn't die, so he wasn't counted on the death tally? But if he did, he would. This is not complicated.

coconut_crab 6y ago

This is a photo I took at one of Vietnam's jam packed airports a few days ago: https://imgur.com/a/9dn5AJh https://imgur.com/a/9dn5AJh Not many people will believe that a poor country like Vietnam, led by a single party in authoritarian style, can suppress Covid-19 with zero deaths. But for people who live here, being able to travel freely is the greatest proof that the approach worked. (still I find it weird that covid-19 seems to be much weaker in South East Asia, even Laos or Cambodia aren't being hit that hard).

pvaldes 6y ago
Not weird at all, is an autochtonous organism in Asia, therefore they had chances to being exposed in the past to similar viruses, and they have lots of young population probably also. Has happened before with american natives dying in mass from new european diseases, for example
ejanus 6y ago
It also seems weaker in Africa. I am still waiting for someone to explain the reason for the situation.