6 ms·

If cost of living is so high, I wonder why they wouldn't invest in a dorm-like living space for founders? I'm not familiar with the area, so I imagine there's r

If cost of living is so high, I wonder why they wouldn't invest in a dorm-like living space for founders? I'm not familiar with the area, so I imagine there's reasons for it, but being able to focus on work instead of life-maintenance details seems like it would benefit the organization.

gringoDan 6y ago
This would benefit a subset of founders - those who are young and single. What if you have a partner? A family? YC is actively moving away from its roots as an alternative to a summer internship for college students to premier seed / Series A investor for companies with traction. Your suggestion runs counter to where they're headed.
stellar678 6y ago
Among other things, I'd expect this is because YC is trying to break free of the idea that the only way to be a successful startup founder is to be a young, single, attachment-free man. Successful startups are created by all kinds of people in all kinds of different life situations, and YC needs to be careful to be inviting to as broad an array of people as possible. At the same time, I agree that dorm-style living (along with other nontraditional styles of living like mulitigenerational or multifamily units, cohousing, coliving, etc...) is a great idea and our culture should work to be more supportive of experimenting with housing. Especially, as you said, in areas with severely impacted housing markets.
- kortilla 6y ago
  Are women unable to live in dorms?
  - randomchars 6y ago
    > young, single, attachment-free man. Some YC founders bring their whole family with them. Also, at some point in life, living a dorm starts to sound like torture.
  - _jal 6y ago
    Many women have obvious, easily predicable concerns about sharing living space with unknown men.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Surely you could set up the spaces so that this could be much less of an issue?
      - _jal 6y ago
        Sure. Those are called "apartments".
        saagarjha 6y ago
        Yeah, and then you put a couple of people of the same gender together in them…and now they're basically back to being dorms.
sharkjacobs 6y ago
Providing employees with some kind of inexpensive nutrient slurry would also be a great way to help mitigate the high cost of living.
- quickthrower2 6y ago
  I'd need zero money towards cost of living if I could simply do it all from my home country. I could then use the $125k towards the actual business.
tlb 6y ago
(a) It's not clear why YC could run an apartment complex better or cheaper than the many companies who already do it (including some YC-funded startups like https://zeusliving.com https://zeusliving.com) (b) Founders tend to be independent-minded people who like to do things their own way.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  > better or cheaper than the many companies why would existing companies be offering cheaper? The price will be set by the market, and any saving will be taken as profit, not passed on to the tenants. The easiest way to insure against rent increase is buy a big chunk of local land. Actually offering it to your own startups just means they reduce overheads a little, provide an extra perk, and a small competitive advantage.
  - ska 6y ago
    What is the opportunity cost of that land investment? Is YC really better off getting into the landlord business rather than using the same money to fund more companies?
    - monadic2 6y ago
      I mean the money is going to landlords either way is it not?
      - Chris2048 6y ago
        A larger entity would have more bargaining power?
- monadic2 6y ago
  YC doesn’t need to be in a high-demand place at all, especially so long before you need to ramp up hiring.
tanilama 6y ago
Maybe because the plan is to ditch Bay Area in the future? Why would people come to a specific place to found an internet company?
- pb7 6y ago
  To be among likeminded people to use as a network for social and business purposes for one. You're more likely to feel at home and happy if you are surrounded by people going through similar challenges as you. I'm sure there are other reasons.
throwaway_jobs 6y ago
Liability. Someone slips and falls, someone is (sexually) assaulted in the dorm, etc... It would probably be exceptionally helpful for a lot of YC founders I imagine, but in addition to the liability, the optics are kind of creepy in that certain SV culture kind of way they likely want to avoid.
gojomo 6y ago
Founders may find & cluster in such spaces, themselves. Once upon a time, an SF high-rise got the nickname 'Yscraper' for all the YCers there: https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Justin-tv-to-get-boot-from-S-F-landlord-2599257.php https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Justin-tv-to-get-boo... And, there have been dorm-like living spaces throughout the Bay Area often favored by founders & young transplants. See, eg: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/technology/dorm-living-grown-ups-san-francisco.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/technology/dorm-living-gr... I'd expect YC might informally be able to point out such places, or formally invest in some with the right vision, but would not necessarily get further into managing housing themselves. And, too much density/interaction with disparate teams might at some point become counterproductive, compared to the classic "intense founders of the same entity living together to the exclusion of other distractions" model, or the rising capabilities of mostly-remote teams.
dang 6y ago
From the beginning, YC was opposed to the incubator model, which that idea would be more aligned with. Even having startups share offices was never something they were interested in. That was partly because they had no interest in managing offices, or managing at all (or offices, for that matter). But there were deeper reasons: the sense that great startups develop in environments of their own creation, a suspicion of scenesterism, and ultimately the fact that they wouldn't have liked to work that way themselves. They strongly approved of saving money, but were more the kind of people who would work out of an apartment (as Viaweb indeed had). The incubator model comes more out of a business-managerial way of thinking. Words like 'synergy' come to mind.
- jdoliner 6y ago
  One of the first things YC partners say to you when you the program starts is: "We are not your employers, we will let you fail." I think that's a core part of how YC works and things like sharing office space or having dorms would degrade that by helping founders to escape some of the responsibilities of their company. For people in YC who are looking for places to work though and want to get out of their apartments I highly recommend the public libraries in Mountain View and the surrounding towns. They're quiet, well lit, have fast wifi, comfortable chairs and desks, and lots of nooks and crannies without much distracting foot traffic.
  - jacobsenscott 6y ago
    Employers let employees fail all the time, and when that happens the stop giving them money. When a startup fails VCs stop giving them money. The illusion of autonomy motivates some people, but make make no mistake - when you take VC money you are an employee of that VC firm - with low pay, no benefits, no title, no desk, etc.
    - edouard-harris 6y ago
      This isn't true in the general case. If you found a startup that's profitable, for example, you have genuine autonomy to an extent that you simply couldn't obtain as an employee, no matter how successful.
sroussey 6y ago
Boost.vc does this.
_jal 6y ago
Because only a subset of a subset of founders would tolerate living like that? I wouldn't. Even if I wanted to live like that, this starts seeming... a bit offputting. 'Come live and work at nerd camp..."

gringoDan 6y ago

This would benefit a subset of founders - those who are young and single. What if you have a partner? A family? YC is actively moving away from its roots as an alternative to a summer internship for college students to premier seed / Series A investor for companies with traction. Your suggestion runs counter to where they're headed.

stellar678 6y ago

Among other things, I'd expect this is because YC is trying to break free of the idea that the only way to be a successful startup founder is to be a young, single, attachment-free man. Successful startups are created by all kinds of people in all kinds of different life situations, and YC needs to be careful to be inviting to as broad an array of people as possible. At the same time, I agree that dorm-style living (along with other nontraditional styles of living like mulitigenerational or multifamily units, cohousing, coliving, etc...) is a great idea and our culture should work to be more supportive of experimenting with housing. Especially, as you said, in areas with severely impacted housing markets.

kortilla 6y ago
Are women unable to live in dorms?
- randomchars 6y ago
  > young, single, attachment-free man. Some YC founders bring their whole family with them. Also, at some point in life, living a dorm starts to sound like torture.
- _jal 6y ago
  Many women have obvious, easily predicable concerns about sharing living space with unknown men.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Surely you could set up the spaces so that this could be much less of an issue?
    - _jal 6y ago
      Sure. Those are called "apartments".
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Yeah, and then you put a couple of people of the same gender together in them…and now they're basically back to being dorms.

sharkjacobs 6y ago

Providing employees with some kind of inexpensive nutrient slurry would also be a great way to help mitigate the high cost of living.

quickthrower2 6y ago
I'd need zero money towards cost of living if I could simply do it all from my home country. I could then use the $125k towards the actual business.

tlb 6y ago

(a) It's not clear why YC could run an apartment complex better or cheaper than the many companies who already do it (including some YC-funded startups like https://zeusliving.com https://zeusliving.com) (b) Founders tend to be independent-minded people who like to do things their own way.

Chris2048 6y ago
> better or cheaper than the many companies why would existing companies be offering cheaper? The price will be set by the market, and any saving will be taken as profit, not passed on to the tenants. The easiest way to insure against rent increase is buy a big chunk of local land. Actually offering it to your own startups just means they reduce overheads a little, provide an extra perk, and a small competitive advantage.
- ska 6y ago
  What is the opportunity cost of that land investment? Is YC really better off getting into the landlord business rather than using the same money to fund more companies?
  - monadic2 6y ago
    I mean the money is going to landlords either way is it not?
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      A larger entity would have more bargaining power?
monadic2 6y ago
YC doesn’t need to be in a high-demand place at all, especially so long before you need to ramp up hiring.

tanilama 6y ago

Maybe because the plan is to ditch Bay Area in the future? Why would people come to a specific place to found an internet company?

pb7 6y ago
To be among likeminded people to use as a network for social and business purposes for one. You're more likely to feel at home and happy if you are surrounded by people going through similar challenges as you. I'm sure there are other reasons.

throwaway_jobs 6y ago

Liability. Someone slips and falls, someone is (sexually) assaulted in the dorm, etc... It would probably be exceptionally helpful for a lot of YC founders I imagine, but in addition to the liability, the optics are kind of creepy in that certain SV culture kind of way they likely want to avoid.

gojomo 6y ago

Founders may find & cluster in such spaces, themselves. Once upon a time, an SF high-rise got the nickname 'Yscraper' for all the YCers there: https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Justin-tv-to-get-boot-from-S-F-landlord-2599257.php https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Justin-tv-to-get-boo... And, there have been dorm-like living spaces throughout the Bay Area often favored by founders & young transplants. See, eg: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/technology/dorm-living-grown-ups-san-francisco.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/technology/dorm-living-gr... I'd expect YC might informally be able to point out such places, or formally invest in some with the right vision, but would not necessarily get further into managing housing themselves. And, too much density/interaction with disparate teams might at some point become counterproductive, compared to the classic "intense founders of the same entity living together to the exclusion of other distractions" model, or the rising capabilities of mostly-remote teams.

dang 6y ago

From the beginning, YC was opposed to the incubator model, which that idea would be more aligned with. Even having startups share offices was never something they were interested in. That was partly because they had no interest in managing offices, or managing at all (or offices, for that matter). But there were deeper reasons: the sense that great startups develop in environments of their own creation, a suspicion of scenesterism, and ultimately the fact that they wouldn't have liked to work that way themselves. They strongly approved of saving money, but were more the kind of people who would work out of an apartment (as Viaweb indeed had). The incubator model comes more out of a business-managerial way of thinking. Words like 'synergy' come to mind.

jdoliner 6y ago
One of the first things YC partners say to you when you the program starts is: "We are not your employers, we will let you fail." I think that's a core part of how YC works and things like sharing office space or having dorms would degrade that by helping founders to escape some of the responsibilities of their company. For people in YC who are looking for places to work though and want to get out of their apartments I highly recommend the public libraries in Mountain View and the surrounding towns. They're quiet, well lit, have fast wifi, comfortable chairs and desks, and lots of nooks and crannies without much distracting foot traffic.
- jacobsenscott 6y ago
  Employers let employees fail all the time, and when that happens the stop giving them money. When a startup fails VCs stop giving them money. The illusion of autonomy motivates some people, but make make no mistake - when you take VC money you are an employee of that VC firm - with low pay, no benefits, no title, no desk, etc.
  - edouard-harris 6y ago
    This isn't true in the general case. If you found a startup that's profitable, for example, you have genuine autonomy to an extent that you simply couldn't obtain as an employee, no matter how successful.

sroussey 6y ago

Boost.vc does this.

_jal 6y ago

Because only a subset of a subset of founders would tolerate living like that? I wouldn't. Even if I wanted to live like that, this starts seeming... a bit offputting. 'Come live and work at nerd camp..."