4 ms·

I saw Ron Johnson speak around 2012 in San Mateo. He oversaw the initial rise of the Apple Store. I remember him saying Jobs told him there was basically an unl

I saw Ron Johnson speak around 2012 in San Mateo. He oversaw the initial rise of the Apple Store. I remember him saying Jobs told him there was basically an unlimited budget to make the stores a success. The difference is it only took Apple three years to reach $1B in annual sales.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
> The difference is it only took Apple three years to reach $1B in annual sales. It took far more than that to earn the trust of consumers. Microsoft decided to sit back, collect rent on Windows/Office, and let other business do the hard work of customer service and let their customers deal with malware on their laptops. Contrast with Apple, who put customer service front and center, opened stores that my parents could go to and talk to someone if they had a problem. They took ownership of the product. And now they are rewarded with the profits. Microsoft had all the cash in the world to make it happen. But instead, they put Candy Crush in the start menu.
- loydb 6y ago
  > Microsoft had all the cash in the world to make it happen. But instead, they put Candy Crush in the start menu. And got rid of Pinball. :(
  - yellowstuff 6y ago
    https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20121218-00/?p=5803 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20121218-00/?p=58...
    - blibble 6y ago
      that's one of the pathetic excuses I've ever read they're an OS developer and they can't spend a day figuring out a floating point bug? maybe redirect some of the time integrating Candy Crush
      - mrguyorama 6y ago
        They don't own the code
        bcrosby95 6y ago
        According to the link: they licensed the code and had access to it. But none of them wrote it and they couldn't justify the days of debugging that would be required when they had millions of other LOC to test and port.
      - jodrellblank 6y ago
        Windows 7 came out in 2009, at least three years before candy crush. > they're an OS developer and they can't spend a day figuring out a floating point bug? Maybe it’s bad to argue by appeal to authority, but I take Raymond Chen’s side that it was a hard problem to debug in the time available over some internet sneering that it must have been easy, any day.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        > Windows 7 came out in 2009, at least three years before candy crush. Well they haven't ported it in the decade since. > in the time available Same response.
      - ryandrake 6y ago
        The follow-up on open sourcing the code was also unhelpful: > Hey everybody asking that the source code be released: The source code was licensed from another company. If you want the source code, you have to go ask them. OK, which company?
        coldpie 6y ago
        Well, in 1995 it was developed by Cinematronics and published by Maxis. In 2020, who knows. Probably Disney.
- jodrellblank 6y ago
  > and let their customers deal with malware on their laptops. They upped their game with the built in Windows Defender to the point where you don’t need third party AV because it’s rated so highly. > Contrast with Apple, who put customer service front and center, opened stores that my parents could go to and talk to someone if they had a problem. Like all the retail stores Microsoft opened, which people in this thread are saying provided a really good experience? > Microsoft had all the cash in the world to make it happen. But instead, they put Candy Crush in the start menu. Contrast with Apple who put sponsored results in the App Store and prevent you from deleting default apps in macOS Catalina? https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/dfetr4/comment/f32q81e https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/dfetr4/comment/f32q81e
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Did you read the link? It didn’t say you couldn’t do it. You have to jump through hoops but they are well defined hoops.
- listenallyall 6y ago
  > Microsoft decided to sit back Weak take. Microsoft was very active with numerous mobile offerings -- Pen Computing, Windows Mobile, Tablet and Embedded Windows. You can debate why they ultimately failed -- too early, insufficient hardware, too Windows-centric -- but @billg was never content just "collecting rent" and not innovating, especially in mobile, internet, and connectivity. Your bias is obvious when you describe MSFT as "collecting rent" (negative connotation) and AAPL as "rewarded with profits" (positive).
  - deanCommie 6y ago
    None of these products were for consumers. Even on the business side, Microsoft never understood or cared about their users (besides maybe Word and Excel users), and marketed towards CEOs and COMPANIES. see: Sharepoint which is the most financially successful Microsoft product ever, yet every end user despises it. They never tried or cared to work backwards from a consumer user or what they wanted, they just started from "how do we make billions of dollars from licensing fees".
ridiculous_fish 6y ago
> opened stores that my parents could go to and talk to someone if they had a problem Yes, the Genius Bars are just fantastic! You make an appointment and then you get help from someone knowledgeable, in person, for free. And that person is authorized to accept repairs, etc. The Big Idea of the Genius Bar is that it's there to help. It's not there to upsell like Geek Squad. It's not hoping you'll go away like typical CS reps. Its mandate really does seem to be "make Apple customers happy."

lotsofpulp 6y ago

> The difference is it only took Apple three years to reach $1B in annual sales. It took far more than that to earn the trust of consumers. Microsoft decided to sit back, collect rent on Windows/Office, and let other business do the hard work of customer service and let their customers deal with malware on their laptops. Contrast with Apple, who put customer service front and center, opened stores that my parents could go to and talk to someone if they had a problem. They took ownership of the product. And now they are rewarded with the profits. Microsoft had all the cash in the world to make it happen. But instead, they put Candy Crush in the start menu.

loydb 6y ago
> Microsoft had all the cash in the world to make it happen. But instead, they put Candy Crush in the start menu. And got rid of Pinball. :(
- yellowstuff 6y ago
  https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20121218-00/?p=5803 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20121218-00/?p=58...
  - blibble 6y ago
    that's one of the pathetic excuses I've ever read they're an OS developer and they can't spend a day figuring out a floating point bug? maybe redirect some of the time integrating Candy Crush
    - mrguyorama 6y ago
      They don't own the code
      - bcrosby95 6y ago
        According to the link: they licensed the code and had access to it. But none of them wrote it and they couldn't justify the days of debugging that would be required when they had millions of other LOC to test and port.
    - jodrellblank 6y ago
      Windows 7 came out in 2009, at least three years before candy crush. > they're an OS developer and they can't spend a day figuring out a floating point bug? Maybe it’s bad to argue by appeal to authority, but I take Raymond Chen’s side that it was a hard problem to debug in the time available over some internet sneering that it must have been easy, any day.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        > Windows 7 came out in 2009, at least three years before candy crush. Well they haven't ported it in the decade since. > in the time available Same response.
    - ryandrake 6y ago
      The follow-up on open sourcing the code was also unhelpful: > Hey everybody asking that the source code be released: The source code was licensed from another company. If you want the source code, you have to go ask them. OK, which company?
      - coldpie 6y ago
        Well, in 1995 it was developed by Cinematronics and published by Maxis. In 2020, who knows. Probably Disney.
jodrellblank 6y ago
> and let their customers deal with malware on their laptops. They upped their game with the built in Windows Defender to the point where you don’t need third party AV because it’s rated so highly. > Contrast with Apple, who put customer service front and center, opened stores that my parents could go to and talk to someone if they had a problem. Like all the retail stores Microsoft opened, which people in this thread are saying provided a really good experience? > Microsoft had all the cash in the world to make it happen. But instead, they put Candy Crush in the start menu. Contrast with Apple who put sponsored results in the App Store and prevent you from deleting default apps in macOS Catalina? https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/dfetr4/comment/f32q81e https://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/dfetr4/comment/f32q81e
- scarface74 6y ago
  Did you read the link? It didn’t say you couldn’t do it. You have to jump through hoops but they are well defined hoops.
listenallyall 6y ago
> Microsoft decided to sit back Weak take. Microsoft was very active with numerous mobile offerings -- Pen Computing, Windows Mobile, Tablet and Embedded Windows. You can debate why they ultimately failed -- too early, insufficient hardware, too Windows-centric -- but @billg was never content just "collecting rent" and not innovating, especially in mobile, internet, and connectivity. Your bias is obvious when you describe MSFT as "collecting rent" (negative connotation) and AAPL as "rewarded with profits" (positive).
- deanCommie 6y ago
  None of these products were for consumers. Even on the business side, Microsoft never understood or cared about their users (besides maybe Word and Excel users), and marketed towards CEOs and COMPANIES. see: Sharepoint which is the most financially successful Microsoft product ever, yet every end user despises it. They never tried or cared to work backwards from a consumer user or what they wanted, they just started from "how do we make billions of dollars from licensing fees".

ridiculous_fish 6y ago

> opened stores that my parents could go to and talk to someone if they had a problem Yes, the Genius Bars are just fantastic! You make an appointment and then you get help from someone knowledgeable, in person, for free. And that person is authorized to accept repairs, etc. The Big Idea of the Genius Bar is that it's there to help. It's not there to upsell like Geek Squad. It's not hoping you'll go away like typical CS reps. Its mandate really does seem to be "make Apple customers happy."