4 ms·

The other side of the spectrum is that Linux is easier to use and more accessible then ever. Ubuntu, Elementary OS, Manjaro, PopOS, and Linux Mint have made lin

The other side of the spectrum is that Linux is easier to use and more accessible then ever. Ubuntu, Elementary OS, Manjaro, PopOS, and Linux Mint have made linux more friendly then ever to "average" computer users, and each day more and more devices and hardware architectures are getting supported.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> The other side of the spectrum is that Linux is easier to use and more accessible then ever. Unfortunately that isn't saying much, and as a long time user of Linux Desktops I can assure you that things are at least as complicated as they always were, they're just more usable now as long as you don't try to do something uncommon. And worse yet: to attain this goal distros have been becoming even more like appliances than computers! Consider why there are so many distros in the first place: it's really hard to take a standard base and convert it to your needs.
- chii 6y ago
  So what are you asking for exactly then? Linux distros have power and customizability, but it's not easy to use. That's par for the course. Windows is (like macs) slowly becoming more walled gardened and controls removed from the user, in the name of making it more user friendly and un-breakable. So either a user learns to be a power user, and go with linux, or stay as a "normal" user, and give control over to microsoft/apple/google etc. There isn't any other choice in the design space of operating systems.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > Linux distros have power and customizability, but it's not easy to use. That's par for the course. I contend that it is possible to have both, it's just that no one is trying to anymore. > So either a user learns to be a power user, and go with linux, or stay as a "normal" user, and give control over to microsoft/apple/google etc. And this is why. Because people who have the ability and opportunity to build that future refuse to do so because they like having a wall that separates them from "normal users" so they can feel superior or something. It didn't used to be this way, a lot of effort used to go into making environments that were powerful and had a good user experience and helped onramp the user to programming. Unfortunately, we've basically thrown all that away now because it isn't where the money is.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      > I contend that it is possible to have both, it's just that no one is trying to anymore. Pure OS is truing, according to their website: https://pureos.net/ https://pureos.net/
  - m4rtink 6y ago
    It seems to me like your information is outdate & recommend trying out a recent Fedora or other modern mainstream distro. Hardly anything needs any tweaking to get working these days.
    - Silhouette 6y ago
      Hardly anything needs any tweaking to get working these days. Modern Linux distros are much better at getting the OS and a lot of hardware up and running. Unfortunately, until the same can be said of applications, it's not going to be a viable alternative for many Windows users. This chicken-and-egg problem is what is really keeping Linux off most desktops, and again rather unfortunately, it would probably need someone very well funded to start backing the effort to make it competitive enough to bootstrap a mass migration. Realistically, you'd probably need to create some Linux-based game-changer applications and/or to get emulation to the point where users can run applications written for other major platforms such as Windows or macOS to run as if native and without any legal problems. We're still a long way from either of those things being achieved without some sort of spectacular investment plus enough time for it to be turned into software.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        The problem with Linux re: applications is that Linux communities are openly hostile to software being delivered directly to the user by a developer, and to proprietary software as a whole. That's the real problem. Applications will come if it becomes a sane platform to build and distribute applications for.
        Silhouette 6y ago
        I don't see that as an unassailable problem, though. There is no reason someone shouldn't develop a solid desktop platform that is built on Linux, has a user-friendly UI, but instead of a typical Linux distro today where you just install everything from your distro's huge repo of FOSS, you install it directly (perhaps with some kind of handy UI to track what you have and facilitate updates) and/or get things from a potentially commercial "app store". In fact, Google has already proved that this model can work, they just did it on mobile devices instead of traditional desktop/laptop PCs. Traditional Linux communities coexist quite happily with the Android ecosystem and largely independent of it, and I see no reason conflict would be necessary with a different style of Linux desktop either.
lithos 6y ago
Can you imagine a normal user being able to go from “everything is broken", to “oh I just need to enable the restricted extras”.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

> The other side of the spectrum is that Linux is easier to use and more accessible then ever. Unfortunately that isn't saying much, and as a long time user of Linux Desktops I can assure you that things are at least as complicated as they always were, they're just more usable now as long as you don't try to do something uncommon. And worse yet: to attain this goal distros have been becoming even more like appliances than computers! Consider why there are so many distros in the first place: it's really hard to take a standard base and convert it to your needs.

chii 6y ago
So what are you asking for exactly then? Linux distros have power and customizability, but it's not easy to use. That's par for the course. Windows is (like macs) slowly becoming more walled gardened and controls removed from the user, in the name of making it more user friendly and un-breakable. So either a user learns to be a power user, and go with linux, or stay as a "normal" user, and give control over to microsoft/apple/google etc. There isn't any other choice in the design space of operating systems.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > Linux distros have power and customizability, but it's not easy to use. That's par for the course. I contend that it is possible to have both, it's just that no one is trying to anymore. > So either a user learns to be a power user, and go with linux, or stay as a "normal" user, and give control over to microsoft/apple/google etc. And this is why. Because people who have the ability and opportunity to build that future refuse to do so because they like having a wall that separates them from "normal users" so they can feel superior or something. It didn't used to be this way, a lot of effort used to go into making environments that were powerful and had a good user experience and helped onramp the user to programming. Unfortunately, we've basically thrown all that away now because it isn't where the money is.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    > I contend that it is possible to have both, it's just that no one is trying to anymore. Pure OS is truing, according to their website: https://pureos.net/ https://pureos.net/
- m4rtink 6y ago
  It seems to me like your information is outdate & recommend trying out a recent Fedora or other modern mainstream distro. Hardly anything needs any tweaking to get working these days.
  - Silhouette 6y ago
    Hardly anything needs any tweaking to get working these days. Modern Linux distros are much better at getting the OS and a lot of hardware up and running. Unfortunately, until the same can be said of applications, it's not going to be a viable alternative for many Windows users. This chicken-and-egg problem is what is really keeping Linux off most desktops, and again rather unfortunately, it would probably need someone very well funded to start backing the effort to make it competitive enough to bootstrap a mass migration. Realistically, you'd probably need to create some Linux-based game-changer applications and/or to get emulation to the point where users can run applications written for other major platforms such as Windows or macOS to run as if native and without any legal problems. We're still a long way from either of those things being achieved without some sort of spectacular investment plus enough time for it to be turned into software.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      The problem with Linux re: applications is that Linux communities are openly hostile to software being delivered directly to the user by a developer, and to proprietary software as a whole. That's the real problem. Applications will come if it becomes a sane platform to build and distribute applications for.
      - Silhouette 6y ago
        I don't see that as an unassailable problem, though. There is no reason someone shouldn't develop a solid desktop platform that is built on Linux, has a user-friendly UI, but instead of a typical Linux distro today where you just install everything from your distro's huge repo of FOSS, you install it directly (perhaps with some kind of handy UI to track what you have and facilitate updates) and/or get things from a potentially commercial "app store". In fact, Google has already proved that this model can work, they just did it on mobile devices instead of traditional desktop/laptop PCs. Traditional Linux communities coexist quite happily with the Android ecosystem and largely independent of it, and I see no reason conflict would be necessary with a different style of Linux desktop either.

lithos 6y ago

Can you imagine a normal user being able to go from “everything is broken", to “oh I just need to enable the restricted extras”.