4 ms·

Speech that leads to violence, how about starting with that?

by seppin 6y ago

steveeq1 6y ago
Such as rap music?
- tyre 6y ago
  found Tipper Gore's burner
- allarm 6y ago
  And metal music. And anime. And many books.
  - steveeq1 6y ago
    Not to the level of rap music though.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't do this here.
  - steveeq1 6y ago
    Do what?
    - dang 6y ago
      Posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait.
      - steveeq1 6y ago
        It's a perfectly valid comment to people who want to get rid of "hate speech" but say nothing about the popularity of gangsta rap within this same crowd. I never understood this.
        dang 6y ago
        People are going to assume that you're bringing this up as a trope of culture war and race war, and I'm doubtful that they would be particularly wrong to assume that. That makes it flamebait, which is against the site guidelines. Please don't post like that to HN.
        steveeq1 6y ago
        It's a perfectly valid argument and one that I like to make. The "hate speech" crowd rarely, if ever, protests over rap music and for the life of me I never understood why.
young_unixer 6y ago
Ban all politics from Facebook then?
allarm 6y ago
Literally anything can lead to violence. It’s just a matter of interpretation. How about stopping with the censorship and fighting with the violence itself?
- seppin 6y ago
  > Literally anything can lead to violence. Literally anything and lead to anything, that's not an argument it's a distraction. > How about stopping with the censorship For the 1,000,000th time, private company cleaning up garbage content its "censorship". Only governments engage in censorship. Every private business has the ability to clean up their space without needed to ask permission.
  - allarm 6y ago
    > Literally anything can lead to anything. I’m glad you get my point. > private company cleaning up garbage content its “censorship” And again ) Jokes aside - I am still waiting when people like you start burning books with “garbage” content. I’ll give it 2 years from now. Oh wait, haven’t you already started? Thinking of “Gone with the Wind” now. Oh, it’s back already. But with a disclaimer that it ‘denies horrors of slavery’ and stuff. Like modern people are just unable to understand it right and they require some proper guidance to think in the correct way. An anecdote: in USSR we had these western/European movie shows on very rare occasions. Normally, before every show a communist party member would make a speech where he/she would warn the watchers that the alien western ideology might harm their soviet minds. It’s very interesting to see how there same thing starts to happen again, voluntarily, in the western world. Way to go, kids ) The argument you’re using - “only governments engage in censorship” - is just an excuse for you to justify the censorship in social media. It’s just a matter of definition, but the result is the same. The social media corporations of the Facebook scale have the same (or even larger) impact on the public consciousness as the government propaganda machine and should not be treated differently. Actually, the government’s censorship looks even nicer, because they at least provide the legal definition of “garbage”, whereas you guys just call a “garbage” anything you don’t like today. Anything “alien” to your current ideology. There’s also no such thing as a “right thing”. There are only actions that are legal or not. The violent acts are illegal - work on stopping these. Otherwise, it’s (obviously) a slippery slope (I can’t believe I said this). Simply because the fluctuations of the meaning of “right thing to do” and “garbage information” are completely unpredictable you should be very much afraid of using such moral criteria. That’s basically the freedom of information and speech people of my country died for in mental hospitals and gulags.
Reelin 6y ago
> Speech that leads to violence, how about starting with that? That's already illegal in most (all?) of the US. The precedent for that is Brandenburg v. Ohio; the legal term is "imminent lawless action". (Regarding Facebook, my understanding is that they will happily remove such speech. That's what the report button is for.) Of course that doesn't provide for censoring politically incorrect or socially unacceptable views so naturally people get bent out of shape and proceed to use terms such as "violence" and "harm" in creative new ways.
- seppin 6y ago
  You obviously don't follow the President on Twitter, or have any idea of the scope of "revolutionary" private groups on Facebook.
falcolas 6y ago
“No taxation without representation.” Sorry, I know that’s pretty extreme.

Speech that leads to violence, how about starting with that?

by seppin 6y ago

Speech that leads to violence, how about starting with that?

steveeq1 6y ago

Such as rap music?

tyre 6y ago
found Tipper Gore's burner
allarm 6y ago
And metal music. And anime. And many books.
- steveeq1 6y ago
  Not to the level of rap music though.
dang 6y ago
Please don't do this here.
- steveeq1 6y ago
  Do what?
  - dang 6y ago
    Posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait.
    - steveeq1 6y ago
      It's a perfectly valid comment to people who want to get rid of "hate speech" but say nothing about the popularity of gangsta rap within this same crowd. I never understood this.
      - dang 6y ago
        People are going to assume that you're bringing this up as a trope of culture war and race war, and I'm doubtful that they would be particularly wrong to assume that. That makes it flamebait, which is against the site guidelines. Please don't post like that to HN.
        steveeq1 6y ago
        It's a perfectly valid argument and one that I like to make. The "hate speech" crowd rarely, if ever, protests over rap music and for the life of me I never understood why.

young_unixer 6y ago

Ban all politics from Facebook then?

allarm 6y ago

Literally anything can lead to violence. It’s just a matter of interpretation. How about stopping with the censorship and fighting with the violence itself?

seppin 6y ago
> Literally anything can lead to violence. Literally anything and lead to anything, that's not an argument it's a distraction. > How about stopping with the censorship For the 1,000,000th time, private company cleaning up garbage content its "censorship". Only governments engage in censorship. Every private business has the ability to clean up their space without needed to ask permission.
- allarm 6y ago
  > Literally anything can lead to anything. I’m glad you get my point. > private company cleaning up garbage content its “censorship” And again ) Jokes aside - I am still waiting when people like you start burning books with “garbage” content. I’ll give it 2 years from now. Oh wait, haven’t you already started? Thinking of “Gone with the Wind” now. Oh, it’s back already. But with a disclaimer that it ‘denies horrors of slavery’ and stuff. Like modern people are just unable to understand it right and they require some proper guidance to think in the correct way. An anecdote: in USSR we had these western/European movie shows on very rare occasions. Normally, before every show a communist party member would make a speech where he/she would warn the watchers that the alien western ideology might harm their soviet minds. It’s very interesting to see how there same thing starts to happen again, voluntarily, in the western world. Way to go, kids ) The argument you’re using - “only governments engage in censorship” - is just an excuse for you to justify the censorship in social media. It’s just a matter of definition, but the result is the same. The social media corporations of the Facebook scale have the same (or even larger) impact on the public consciousness as the government propaganda machine and should not be treated differently. Actually, the government’s censorship looks even nicer, because they at least provide the legal definition of “garbage”, whereas you guys just call a “garbage” anything you don’t like today. Anything “alien” to your current ideology. There’s also no such thing as a “right thing”. There are only actions that are legal or not. The violent acts are illegal - work on stopping these. Otherwise, it’s (obviously) a slippery slope (I can’t believe I said this). Simply because the fluctuations of the meaning of “right thing to do” and “garbage information” are completely unpredictable you should be very much afraid of using such moral criteria. That’s basically the freedom of information and speech people of my country died for in mental hospitals and gulags.

Reelin 6y ago

> Speech that leads to violence, how about starting with that? That's already illegal in most (all?) of the US. The precedent for that is Brandenburg v. Ohio; the legal term is "imminent lawless action". (Regarding Facebook, my understanding is that they will happily remove such speech. That's what the report button is for.) Of course that doesn't provide for censoring politically incorrect or socially unacceptable views so naturally people get bent out of shape and proceed to use terms such as "violence" and "harm" in creative new ways.

seppin 6y ago
You obviously don't follow the President on Twitter, or have any idea of the scope of "revolutionary" private groups on Facebook.

falcolas 6y ago

“No taxation without representation.” Sorry, I know that’s pretty extreme.