6 ms·

That's great but I wish the creator'd do something about death by FPS. Which is arguably how I end up all the time. I like to build big complex fortresses with

That's great but I wish the creator'd do something about death by FPS. Which is arguably how I end up all the time. I like to build big complex fortresses with a lot of industry and a lot of mining. And oftentimes I end up with a lot of animals to produce meat, leather and bones (had a very promising Draltha industry at one point). It's quite disheartening to put time in a fortress and "die" by FPS just because you are doing good. Will still buy the Steam version (been supporting them for a while now).

grawprog 6y ago
Being able to explore goblin spires and human cities in adventure mode would be nice too. It's sad when you have to avoid exploring the biggest city in your world mode because taking a step takes two minutes or more. It sucks all the more because exploring things in cities in adventure mode has given some of the best roleplaying adventures i've had in a game. It just take so damn long to do anything. Can't think of any other game i've played where the leader NPCs of a city were vampires who'd taken over the city a few hundred years ago and were at war with a church started by a human who found jewelry created by a dwarf who'd ran away after murdering a child and crafting their bones into jewelry in a fell mood that was found by a random human in the city who started a cult around it, who then took up a personal vengeance with the vampire overlords and were undergoing covert operations against them that i disrupted when I killed the fuck out of everyone, gathered the child bone jewelry and read about that shit in legends. All procedurally generated and created on the fly through the simulation of all those respective NPC's lives.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  Only game I've played with emergent (alt-history) stories like that is Crusader Kings. Every friday the subreddit has stickied thread for sharing in-game stories: https://old.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/hc4iyp/feudal_friday_june_19_2020/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/hc4iyp/feuda... https://www.destructoid.com/crusader-kings-ii-s-community-is-hilarious-when-taken-out-of-context-514623.phtml https://www.destructoid.com/crusader-kings-ii-s-community-is...
- chongli 6y ago
  Caves of Qud [1] is a fantastic roguelike with procedurally generated backstory, quests, towns, etc. If you like the classic Fallout games (1 & 2) and you enjoy roguelikes with a lot of weird stuff, I think you’d get a kick out of CoQ. The game has incredible atmosphere that gives you this feeling like you’re exploring a real, living, breathing world. There’s a lot of depth to the gameplay as well, with deep character building and a complex crafting system. I really want to get back to playing it but I’m in school right now and have a ton of work to do! [1] http://www.cavesofqud.com/ http://www.cavesofqud.com/
  - kibwen 6y ago
    I just learned about Caves of Qud by this great talk by its developer that goes over examples of its procedural history generation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClGAApZYIvI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClGAApZYIvI Apparently it's slated to leave early access in Q4 2020, so I'm holding off on buying it for the moment, but I'm very eager to play it.
    - chongli 6y ago
      Definitely make sure you don’t forget to play it. It’s an absolute treasure. I’ve played to the end of the campaign so far and I can’t wait to play some games again when I get on a work term this fall!
    - programd 6y ago
      And here is the paper [1] about how they procedurally generate the histories in Caves of Qud. Very interesting both from a storytelling theoretical point of view, and from a practical programming point of view (state machines and replacement grammers) [1] http://www.freeholdgames.com/papers/Generation_of_Mythic_Biographies_in_CavesofQud.pdf http://www.freeholdgames.com/papers/Generation_of_Mythic_Bio... Makes you wonder what you could do applying something like the GPT-3 AI text model to this kind of problem (history generation).
  - rhn_mk1 6y ago
    I tried Caves of Qud, but after dying a dozen times due to botched combat, I can't get into it. The way I played I got more of a NetHack in an open world setting vibe, rather than a sandboxy exploration of a generated world. I'm not sure what I was doing wrong. Was I focusing on battle too much? Is it even avoidable when the plains are full of monsters, and goals are placed on the other side of the plains?
stryan 6y ago
Considering DF is still all mostly single threaded and IIRC Toady doesn't really know how to make it multi-threaded (per his own admition) that might take a while.
- Twinklebreeze 6y ago
  Every time multi-threading gets brought up one of the devs explains that being single threaded isn't the bottleneck. It is the cpu cache that is the bottleneck.
  - foota 6y ago
    Don't modern processors have more cache available between all cores than available to a single core?
    - jayd16 6y ago
      They must mean its memory I/O bound.
      - foota 6y ago
        I think they meant it only runs quickly enough when everything's in cache? But that doesn't make much sense to me. It's really hard for me to believe it'd be I/O bound though, when memory bandwidth is like tens+ of gigabytes per second?
        imtringued 6y ago
        IO bound can also mean that memory latency is a problem. It's not difficult to believe that DF is doing lots of pointer chasing.
  - ViViDboarder 6y ago
    Does that sound right? Do I have this wrong: there is too much to cache so some of the memory goes to RAM or disk where loading will take longer than cache. You could move some of the loading to another thread so that the UI (text or otherwise) can continue while other data in the backend is moved around between cache, RAM, and disk, and then processed before sending to the interface.
ruste 6y ago
I've started enjoying the game a lot more when I lowered my population limit (like to 10-15) and started playing smaller forts. Makes FPS death much less of a problem and means I can actually take care of my dwarves instead of rushing to keep up with population growth. Not breaching the caverns also helps a _lot_ with FPS.

grawprog 6y ago

Being able to explore goblin spires and human cities in adventure mode would be nice too. It's sad when you have to avoid exploring the biggest city in your world mode because taking a step takes two minutes or more. It sucks all the more because exploring things in cities in adventure mode has given some of the best roleplaying adventures i've had in a game. It just take so damn long to do anything. Can't think of any other game i've played where the leader NPCs of a city were vampires who'd taken over the city a few hundred years ago and were at war with a church started by a human who found jewelry created by a dwarf who'd ran away after murdering a child and crafting their bones into jewelry in a fell mood that was found by a random human in the city who started a cult around it, who then took up a personal vengeance with the vampire overlords and were undergoing covert operations against them that i disrupted when I killed the fuck out of everyone, gathered the child bone jewelry and read about that shit in legends. All procedurally generated and created on the fly through the simulation of all those respective NPC's lives.

hombre_fatal 6y ago
Only game I've played with emergent (alt-history) stories like that is Crusader Kings. Every friday the subreddit has stickied thread for sharing in-game stories: https://old.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/hc4iyp/feudal_friday_june_19_2020/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/hc4iyp/feuda... https://www.destructoid.com/crusader-kings-ii-s-community-is-hilarious-when-taken-out-of-context-514623.phtml https://www.destructoid.com/crusader-kings-ii-s-community-is...
chongli 6y ago
Caves of Qud [1] is a fantastic roguelike with procedurally generated backstory, quests, towns, etc. If you like the classic Fallout games (1 & 2) and you enjoy roguelikes with a lot of weird stuff, I think you’d get a kick out of CoQ. The game has incredible atmosphere that gives you this feeling like you’re exploring a real, living, breathing world. There’s a lot of depth to the gameplay as well, with deep character building and a complex crafting system. I really want to get back to playing it but I’m in school right now and have a ton of work to do! [1] http://www.cavesofqud.com/ http://www.cavesofqud.com/
- kibwen 6y ago
  I just learned about Caves of Qud by this great talk by its developer that goes over examples of its procedural history generation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClGAApZYIvI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClGAApZYIvI Apparently it's slated to leave early access in Q4 2020, so I'm holding off on buying it for the moment, but I'm very eager to play it.
  - chongli 6y ago
    Definitely make sure you don’t forget to play it. It’s an absolute treasure. I’ve played to the end of the campaign so far and I can’t wait to play some games again when I get on a work term this fall!
  - programd 6y ago
    And here is the paper [1] about how they procedurally generate the histories in Caves of Qud. Very interesting both from a storytelling theoretical point of view, and from a practical programming point of view (state machines and replacement grammers) [1] http://www.freeholdgames.com/papers/Generation_of_Mythic_Biographies_in_CavesofQud.pdf http://www.freeholdgames.com/papers/Generation_of_Mythic_Bio... Makes you wonder what you could do applying something like the GPT-3 AI text model to this kind of problem (history generation).
- rhn_mk1 6y ago
  I tried Caves of Qud, but after dying a dozen times due to botched combat, I can't get into it. The way I played I got more of a NetHack in an open world setting vibe, rather than a sandboxy exploration of a generated world. I'm not sure what I was doing wrong. Was I focusing on battle too much? Is it even avoidable when the plains are full of monsters, and goals are placed on the other side of the plains?

stryan 6y ago

Considering DF is still all mostly single threaded and IIRC Toady doesn't really know how to make it multi-threaded (per his own admition) that might take a while.

Twinklebreeze 6y ago
Every time multi-threading gets brought up one of the devs explains that being single threaded isn't the bottleneck. It is the cpu cache that is the bottleneck.
- foota 6y ago
  Don't modern processors have more cache available between all cores than available to a single core?
  - jayd16 6y ago
    They must mean its memory I/O bound.
    - foota 6y ago
      I think they meant it only runs quickly enough when everything's in cache? But that doesn't make much sense to me. It's really hard for me to believe it'd be I/O bound though, when memory bandwidth is like tens+ of gigabytes per second?
      - imtringued 6y ago
        IO bound can also mean that memory latency is a problem. It's not difficult to believe that DF is doing lots of pointer chasing.
- ViViDboarder 6y ago
  Does that sound right? Do I have this wrong: there is too much to cache so some of the memory goes to RAM or disk where loading will take longer than cache. You could move some of the loading to another thread so that the UI (text or otherwise) can continue while other data in the backend is moved around between cache, RAM, and disk, and then processed before sending to the interface.

ruste 6y ago

I've started enjoying the game a lot more when I lowered my population limit (like to 10-15) and started playing smaller forts. Makes FPS death much less of a problem and means I can actually take care of my dwarves instead of rushing to keep up with population growth. Not breaching the caverns also helps a _lot_ with FPS.