5 ms·

We don't give college students guns and the lawful permission to commit violence

Alupis 6y ago
We certainly give them permission to change laws and politics, based off impressions and experiences gained during education. We should ensure that education isn't polluted and warped, and what better of a way to do that than to record all of it. This way, if some students start demanding awful policies be enacted, we can review their experiences in the classroom and find where the blame should be placed!
- GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
  I'm unsure if you're being sarcastic. If not, I'll reiterate my point: College students don't have lawful authority to commit violence. Lampooning the college system as something even nearing the system of abuse in the policing system is deeply troubling.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    It's being sarcastic, because recording people all the time and auditing what they say privately is dystopian regardless of the position.
    - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
      Not sure if I understand doubling down on a one-off sarcastic remark... Is this an American thing?
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        I don't think so. Being sarcastic and amping it up until it's detected seems to be fairly common across cultures in my experience. (But then again, I am American.)
    - soledades 6y ago
      "Auditing what they say privately" is begging the question. The parent's point is that the training of police officers should be public. No one is proposing that we record the police trainers when they go out for dinner with their family.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        I guess it means what we interpret "off the cuff side commentary" to be. I'm certainly not claiming we're going to attach a camera to people 24/7, but I think even in the classroom we should not be recording every interaction they have.
        soledades 6y ago
        I just think it's a little bizarre to feel dystopia creep from checks on police rather than from police checks on civil liberties. edit: or rather, to feel dystopia creep more from the idea of monitoring how police are taught to use surveillance technologies, than from the actual police use of surveillance technologies itself.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        > rather than I think both are dystopian.
        soledades 6y ago
        + Recording a session where public servants vested with the authority of the state are taught how to conduct their job. + Police driving down the road with facial recognition devices scanning the faces of all the private individuals walking down the street and allowing them to pull up records on any of them. One of these things is not like the other (and the second is a current reality!)
        saagarjha 6y ago
        I'm not saying I consider them to be equal, and I will note that the specific thing I have a problem with is recording them with the intent of catching their private conversations and then reviewing it for comments you think might indicate poor behavior in the future. I know the second one is a reality and I am fairly vocal about being against that, but it's awfully hard to get rid of :(
    - loceng 6y ago
      You are the one who injected the straw man argument saying we should record professors and students, and now you go even further to claim we're somehow arguing to record all people all the time to audit them? Why are you going outside the bounds or scope of our arguments?
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        > You are the one who injected the straw man argument saying we should record professors and students I did not. > now you go even further to claim we're somehow arguing to record all people all the time to audit them I mean, if you look at the what was posted: > Have all classes and training sessions recorded so there's record for review of how accurately curriculum is being followed, what off the cuff side commentary might be made, etc - to weed out bad instructors, bad role models. This does in fact seem like you're recording them all the time while they're in the classroom, is it not?
deathgrips 6y ago
We do though. College students have the right to guns and the right to self-defense.
- deeblering4 6y ago
  Sort of. Except qualified immunity does not protect/prevent college students from being held accountable for violent acts. This means that, unlike police, college students who hurt someone are going to be arrested, tried and very possibly convicted.
- GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
  Question: have you ever shot and killed someone in self defense? I have. I was in my home working late, when an intruder broke into my living room with a handgun. I heard the noise, grabbed my Remington. I told him to drop his weapon, and let me ziptie his hands. He tried shooting me, I hit him with two shells. He died within minutes. You have no idea what it's like to be a lawful gun owner, and explain to the police why there's a dead man in your living room that you just shot. I was arrested that night and sat in jail for a week while they tried to determine if I had murdered man. Keep in mind, at the time I lived in a Castle Doctrine state, it's legal to shoot intruders in self defense. Anyways long story short, and a few hundred thousand dollars later in court and legal fees, I was acquitted. Fortunately I had security footage of the intruder on my back porch, otherwise I might still be in jail. Self-defense and 2A is NOT the same power as the police. Nor should it, no one should have absolute violent authority.
  - deathgrips 6y ago
    >explain to the police why there's a dead man in your living room >and a few hundred thousand dollars later in court and legal fees This is not legal advice. In the future, please consider not talking to the police for any reason. Please also consider buying legal insurance for self-defense incidents. Aside from that, I don't see what your point is. The power to defend yourself with violence is a legal right that Americans have in practice in most states. In Texas people with licenses to concealed carry end up committing fewer unjustified killings per capita than the police. They seem to be wielding their rights just fine.

We certainly give them permission to change laws and politics, based off impressions and experiences gained during education. We should ensure that education isn't polluted and warped, and what better of a way to do that than to record all of it. This way, if some students start demanding awful policies be enacted, we can review their experiences in the classroom and find where the blame should be placed!

GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
I'm unsure if you're being sarcastic. If not, I'll reiterate my point: College students don't have lawful authority to commit violence. Lampooning the college system as something even nearing the system of abuse in the policing system is deeply troubling.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  It's being sarcastic, because recording people all the time and auditing what they say privately is dystopian regardless of the position.
  - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
    Not sure if I understand doubling down on a one-off sarcastic remark... Is this an American thing?
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I don't think so. Being sarcastic and amping it up until it's detected seems to be fairly common across cultures in my experience. (But then again, I am American.)
  - soledades 6y ago
    "Auditing what they say privately" is begging the question. The parent's point is that the training of police officers should be public. No one is proposing that we record the police trainers when they go out for dinner with their family.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I guess it means what we interpret "off the cuff side commentary" to be. I'm certainly not claiming we're going to attach a camera to people 24/7, but I think even in the classroom we should not be recording every interaction they have.
      - soledades 6y ago
        I just think it's a little bizarre to feel dystopia creep from checks on police rather than from police checks on civil liberties. edit: or rather, to feel dystopia creep more from the idea of monitoring how police are taught to use surveillance technologies, than from the actual police use of surveillance technologies itself.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        > rather than I think both are dystopian.
        soledades 6y ago
        + Recording a session where public servants vested with the authority of the state are taught how to conduct their job. + Police driving down the road with facial recognition devices scanning the faces of all the private individuals walking down the street and allowing them to pull up records on any of them. One of these things is not like the other (and the second is a current reality!)
        saagarjha 6y ago
        I'm not saying I consider them to be equal, and I will note that the specific thing I have a problem with is recording them with the intent of catching their private conversations and then reviewing it for comments you think might indicate poor behavior in the future. I know the second one is a reality and I am fairly vocal about being against that, but it's awfully hard to get rid of :(
  - loceng 6y ago
    You are the one who injected the straw man argument saying we should record professors and students, and now you go even further to claim we're somehow arguing to record all people all the time to audit them? Why are you going outside the bounds or scope of our arguments?
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      > You are the one who injected the straw man argument saying we should record professors and students I did not. > now you go even further to claim we're somehow arguing to record all people all the time to audit them I mean, if you look at the what was posted: > Have all classes and training sessions recorded so there's record for review of how accurately curriculum is being followed, what off the cuff side commentary might be made, etc - to weed out bad instructors, bad role models. This does in fact seem like you're recording them all the time while they're in the classroom, is it not?

deathgrips 6y ago

We do though. College students have the right to guns and the right to self-defense.

deeblering4 6y ago
Sort of. Except qualified immunity does not protect/prevent college students from being held accountable for violent acts. This means that, unlike police, college students who hurt someone are going to be arrested, tried and very possibly convicted.
GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
Question: have you ever shot and killed someone in self defense? I have. I was in my home working late, when an intruder broke into my living room with a handgun. I heard the noise, grabbed my Remington. I told him to drop his weapon, and let me ziptie his hands. He tried shooting me, I hit him with two shells. He died within minutes. You have no idea what it's like to be a lawful gun owner, and explain to the police why there's a dead man in your living room that you just shot. I was arrested that night and sat in jail for a week while they tried to determine if I had murdered man. Keep in mind, at the time I lived in a Castle Doctrine state, it's legal to shoot intruders in self defense. Anyways long story short, and a few hundred thousand dollars later in court and legal fees, I was acquitted. Fortunately I had security footage of the intruder on my back porch, otherwise I might still be in jail. Self-defense and 2A is NOT the same power as the police. Nor should it, no one should have absolute violent authority.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  >explain to the police why there's a dead man in your living room >and a few hundred thousand dollars later in court and legal fees This is not legal advice. In the future, please consider not talking to the police for any reason. Please also consider buying legal insurance for self-defense incidents. Aside from that, I don't see what your point is. The power to defend yourself with violence is a legal right that Americans have in practice in most states. In Texas people with licenses to concealed carry end up committing fewer unjustified killings per capita than the police. They seem to be wielding their rights just fine.