5 ms·

I think you are forgetting that serious operators do not have spaces in their paths.

by montroser 6y ago

hk__2 6y ago
*People who are used to work with bad tools don’t have spaces in their paths.
- tenebrisalietum 6y ago
  "C:\Documents and Settings" still hurts after all these years.
  - linuxftw 6y ago
    "C:\Program Files(x86)". Who ok'd that?
    - GrinningFool 6y ago
      I haven't looked in a while, but last I checked you could also still get to it via C:\PROGRA~1? (This was years ago, that might have been 'fixed'?)
      - joombaga 6y ago
        These are called 8.3 filenames. They're a filesystem feature. They're still created by default in Windows 10 on NTFS, but can be disabled or stripped using `fsutil`.
    - einarin 6y ago
      Speculation, but I suspect that Microsoft explicitly put both user data and programs in paths with long filenames and spaces to help force software to support those things. That always seemed like a good thing to me, it's ridiculous that we still have software that breaks on paths with spaces.
    - oblio 6y ago
      It's a design decision and a good one, at that. Forcing 1 million developers to handle spaces properly while they spend 1 billion hours developing their software is preferable to 1 billion regular users having to remember to not use space, a perfectly good separator, in their 1 billion billions hours of usage of said software.
  - jedieaston 6y ago
    It still hurts today, because Microsoft puts a space between your first and last name in your profile if you are using a local account but not for a domain account, which causes all kinds of weird issues if you ever have to use cmd.exe...
- jdxcode 6y ago
  cough make cough
ironmagma 6y ago
That’s just objectively false.
jdxcode 6y ago
"Serious operators" never want to put their files into iCloud Drive? They must be using butterflies then https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/
- paulchap 6y ago
  "Serious operators" probably use a cloud storage solution that supports WebDAV/FTP/SFTP, like box.com or Google Drive - "real operators", on the other hand, have a self-hosted solution (-; And IMHO relying on iCloud for essential data storage probably isn't a good idea.
  - pnutjam 6y ago
    rsync or btrfsync for the win
  - jdxcode 6y ago
    I find iCloud much better than Google Cloud and I'm pretty sure I qualify as a "serious/real operator" any way you want to call it. I have no time or interest in hosting a custom solution. And I certainly have no need for FTP. But even if I wasn't experienced, quit this gatekeeping crap. Let people use the tools that work for them. It does not in any way reflect on how "serious/real" they are.
    - paulchap 6y ago
      > "Serious operators" probably use a cloud storage solution that supports WebDAV/FTP/SFTP, like box.com or Google Drive - "real operators", on the other hand, have a self-hosted solution (-; I didn't mean to discredit you for using iCloud - if it came across that way, I apologize. My original comment was meant to be tongue in cheek. I've got to admit that I'm a bit gob-smacked by your reaction... After all, my comment was similar in structure to yours. I even quote unquoted the terms, and the "real operator" part was a reference to the editor war xkcd you mentioned. Taking your post literally, I could accuse you of doing the same thing by assuming that real operators were Mac users. And I'm sure there are many use cases where hosting your own cloud storage would be absurd. But, re-reading my comment, it didn't read like a flame war instigating piece of propaganda "Calling all real sysops to arms against the user threat. Grab your cattle prod, fellow comrades, and crank up the voltage!" > And IMHO relying on iCloud for essential data storage probably isn't a good idea. I don't condone gatekeeping (although, to be perfectly honest, I don't see how my comment could be interpreted as elitist. It's not like the learning curve for GDrive or any other solution with a better cross platform support is _that_ high), but I don't see a reason why I shouldn't voice my opinion on a tool, even if responding to something obviously meant as a joke. Of course you're free to use iCloud. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable with the thought of my critical data being stored on a platform that, historically, hasn't always been known for being extremely stable. Maybe I'm just biased. If you feel comfortable using it, then use it. I won't stand in your way.
teddyh 6y ago
On the contrary, serious operators write programs to handle spaces in the paths.
geofft 6y ago
I don't know about "serious," but trustworthy operators use tools that work correctly in the presence of weird states because they take responsibility for their work instead of blaming others.

I think you are forgetting that serious operators do not have spaces in their paths.

hk__2 6y ago

*People who are used to work with bad tools don’t have spaces in their paths.

tenebrisalietum 6y ago
"C:\Documents and Settings" still hurts after all these years.
- linuxftw 6y ago
  "C:\Program Files(x86)". Who ok'd that?
  - GrinningFool 6y ago
    I haven't looked in a while, but last I checked you could also still get to it via C:\PROGRA~1? (This was years ago, that might have been 'fixed'?)
    - joombaga 6y ago
      These are called 8.3 filenames. They're a filesystem feature. They're still created by default in Windows 10 on NTFS, but can be disabled or stripped using `fsutil`.
  - einarin 6y ago
    Speculation, but I suspect that Microsoft explicitly put both user data and programs in paths with long filenames and spaces to help force software to support those things. That always seemed like a good thing to me, it's ridiculous that we still have software that breaks on paths with spaces.
  - oblio 6y ago
    It's a design decision and a good one, at that. Forcing 1 million developers to handle spaces properly while they spend 1 billion hours developing their software is preferable to 1 billion regular users having to remember to not use space, a perfectly good separator, in their 1 billion billions hours of usage of said software.
- jedieaston 6y ago
  It still hurts today, because Microsoft puts a space between your first and last name in your profile if you are using a local account but not for a domain account, which causes all kinds of weird issues if you ever have to use cmd.exe...
jdxcode 6y ago
cough make cough

ironmagma 6y ago

That’s just objectively false.

jdxcode 6y ago

"Serious operators" never want to put their files into iCloud Drive? They must be using butterflies then https://xkcd.com/378/ https://xkcd.com/378/

paulchap 6y ago
"Serious operators" probably use a cloud storage solution that supports WebDAV/FTP/SFTP, like box.com or Google Drive - "real operators", on the other hand, have a self-hosted solution (-; And IMHO relying on iCloud for essential data storage probably isn't a good idea.
- pnutjam 6y ago
  rsync or btrfsync for the win
- jdxcode 6y ago
  I find iCloud much better than Google Cloud and I'm pretty sure I qualify as a "serious/real operator" any way you want to call it. I have no time or interest in hosting a custom solution. And I certainly have no need for FTP. But even if I wasn't experienced, quit this gatekeeping crap. Let people use the tools that work for them. It does not in any way reflect on how "serious/real" they are.
  - paulchap 6y ago
    > "Serious operators" probably use a cloud storage solution that supports WebDAV/FTP/SFTP, like box.com or Google Drive - "real operators", on the other hand, have a self-hosted solution (-; I didn't mean to discredit you for using iCloud - if it came across that way, I apologize. My original comment was meant to be tongue in cheek. I've got to admit that I'm a bit gob-smacked by your reaction... After all, my comment was similar in structure to yours. I even quote unquoted the terms, and the "real operator" part was a reference to the editor war xkcd you mentioned. Taking your post literally, I could accuse you of doing the same thing by assuming that real operators were Mac users. And I'm sure there are many use cases where hosting your own cloud storage would be absurd. But, re-reading my comment, it didn't read like a flame war instigating piece of propaganda "Calling all real sysops to arms against the user threat. Grab your cattle prod, fellow comrades, and crank up the voltage!" > And IMHO relying on iCloud for essential data storage probably isn't a good idea. I don't condone gatekeeping (although, to be perfectly honest, I don't see how my comment could be interpreted as elitist. It's not like the learning curve for GDrive or any other solution with a better cross platform support is _that_ high), but I don't see a reason why I shouldn't voice my opinion on a tool, even if responding to something obviously meant as a joke. Of course you're free to use iCloud. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable with the thought of my critical data being stored on a platform that, historically, hasn't always been known for being extremely stable. Maybe I'm just biased. If you feel comfortable using it, then use it. I won't stand in your way.

teddyh 6y ago

On the contrary, serious operators write programs to handle spaces in the paths.

geofft 6y ago

I don't know about "serious," but trustworthy operators use tools that work correctly in the presence of weird states because they take responsibility for their work instead of blaming others.