5 ms·

Hang on, did they just accuse Chelsea Manning of attempting to hack computer systems? Is that a new allegation? To the best of my knowledge she only ever used a

by moomin 6y ago

Hang on, did they just accuse Chelsea Manning of attempting to hack computer systems? Is that a new allegation? To the best of my knowledge she only ever used access she already had, not attempted privilege escalation. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
That was my understanding, as well. I was under the impression that Manning already had pretty carte blanche access to a lot of stuff, and that was how she was able to get it in the first place. Maybe one of the items she provided to Assange was encrypted, and he worked to break the encryption, without consulting Manning.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- nickysielicki 6y ago
  It's so much worse than this. Via instant messenger, Manning asked Assange whether Wikileaks could crack NTLM hashes. Assange said (paraphrasing), "Yeah, we can probably do that." Manning sent the hashes. Assange said he'd work on cracking them. A few days later, Manning asked if the hashes had been cracked. Assange replied that there hadn't been any progress. End of story. That's a federal crime. No hashes were cracked, let alone sent back to Manning. No additional access was gained. He simply agreed to accept the hashes from Manning, which were freely offered. Maybe he agreed because he didn't want to spook his source. Maybe he never even started hashcat. We'll never know. edit: source: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/886185-pe-123.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/886185-pe-123.html (middle of page 6)
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    Ah. Yes. That makes sense. People like Manning and Snowden expose nastiness, but, at the same time, we absolutely need to ensure military and espionage secrets (Full disclosure: my father was in the CIA, but quit on moral grounds - http://cmarshall.com/miscellaneous/MikeMarshall.htm http://cmarshall.com/miscellaneous/MikeMarshall.htm). People die when military secrets get exposed. That's often completely unintended, but it happens anyway. My father had a post similar to that held by Valerie Plame. If he had been exposed (like she was), then all his contacts would have been murdered, along with, I am sure, folks he worked with legit.
    - sitkack 6y ago
      When we have unfallable machinery in place to keep secrets safe, and no honorable people to leak them what will we have then? Is the world worse off because of the Pentagon papers? You bring up Plame, but I think you are doing your readers a disservice in not citing that she was exposed not by journalist, but by a people in power to silence the truth that her husband was speaking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair#Civil_suit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair#Civil_suit
      - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
        I'm actually aware of the story. I'm outraged. My father was quite liberal. You may have missed the part where I mentioned that he quit the CIA on moral grounds? It's just that if he had been outed, there's a better than even chance that I would have been killed, so you might say that I have a right to my opinion.
        sitkack 6y ago
        I can't argue against what could have happened, all leaks are not bad. Yes, your timeline would have changed if your father had been killed by a leak. But if we look at what did happen with Wikileaks esp relative to what Richard Armitage did to Valerie Plame and the CIA and that no known violence has occurred against [redacted] folks from the Wikileaks releases. All leaks and all leakers are not the same. Wikileaks put great effort in working with journalists to carefully redact information and report the news, to shine light where it needed shining. And Dick Army outed an agent and her team and forced it to shut down to harm a political opponent. If anyone belongs in jail it is Dick Army and not Julian Assange.
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > Via instant messenger, Manning asked Assange whether Wikileaks could crack NTLM hashes. Assange said (paraphrasing), "Yeah, we can probably do that." Manning sent the hashes. Assange said he'd work on cracking them. A few days later, Manning asked if the hashes had been cracked. Assange replied that there hadn't been any progress. > End of story. That's a federal crime. No hashes were cracked, let alone sent back to Manning. No additional access was gained. He simply agreed to accept the hashes from Manning, which were freely offered. That actually sounds like the crime of criminal conspiracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(criminal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(criminal) > In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future.... > [US] Conspiracy law usually does not require proof of specific intent by the defendants to injure any specific person to establish an illegal agreement. Instead, usually the law requires only that the conspirators have agreed to engage in a certain illegal act. > Under most U.S. laws, for a person to be convicted of conspiracy, not only must he or she agree to commit a crime, but at least one of the conspirators must commit an overt act (the actus reus) in furtherance of the crime.[24] You'd crack the hash as part of a plan (i.e. a conspiracy) to get unauthorized access to a computer system (a crime), and exchanging the hash is the actus reus. There are very good reasons why conspiracy is a crime, and it's very similar to other crimes like attempted murder. If someone plans to kill you, but they're caught before taking their shot, should they go free because no harm was actually done?
JoeSmithson 6y ago
I don't think this is new, she is suspected of sharing a password hash that JA tried to help break. This was the original basis for JA's extradition e.g. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/04/16/unpacking-the-alleged-assange-manning-password-hacking-conspiracy/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrew...
dadjitsu 6y ago
So sad Bradley Manning was psy-opped so badly to go that crazy and then have people like you reinforcing his mental sickness.

by moomin 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

That was my understanding, as well. I was under the impression that Manning already had pretty carte blanche access to a lot of stuff, and that was how she was able to get it in the first place. Maybe one of the items she provided to Assange was encrypted, and he worked to break the encryption, without consulting Manning.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nickysielicki 6y ago
It's so much worse than this. Via instant messenger, Manning asked Assange whether Wikileaks could crack NTLM hashes. Assange said (paraphrasing), "Yeah, we can probably do that." Manning sent the hashes. Assange said he'd work on cracking them. A few days later, Manning asked if the hashes had been cracked. Assange replied that there hadn't been any progress. End of story. That's a federal crime. No hashes were cracked, let alone sent back to Manning. No additional access was gained. He simply agreed to accept the hashes from Manning, which were freely offered. Maybe he agreed because he didn't want to spook his source. Maybe he never even started hashcat. We'll never know. edit: source: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/886185-pe-123.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/886185-pe-123.html (middle of page 6)
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  Ah. Yes. That makes sense. People like Manning and Snowden expose nastiness, but, at the same time, we absolutely need to ensure military and espionage secrets (Full disclosure: my father was in the CIA, but quit on moral grounds - http://cmarshall.com/miscellaneous/MikeMarshall.htm http://cmarshall.com/miscellaneous/MikeMarshall.htm). People die when military secrets get exposed. That's often completely unintended, but it happens anyway. My father had a post similar to that held by Valerie Plame. If he had been exposed (like she was), then all his contacts would have been murdered, along with, I am sure, folks he worked with legit.
  - sitkack 6y ago
    When we have unfallable machinery in place to keep secrets safe, and no honorable people to leak them what will we have then? Is the world worse off because of the Pentagon papers? You bring up Plame, but I think you are doing your readers a disservice in not citing that she was exposed not by journalist, but by a people in power to silence the truth that her husband was speaking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair#Civil_suit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair#Civil_suit
    - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
      I'm actually aware of the story. I'm outraged. My father was quite liberal. You may have missed the part where I mentioned that he quit the CIA on moral grounds? It's just that if he had been outed, there's a better than even chance that I would have been killed, so you might say that I have a right to my opinion.
      - sitkack 6y ago
        I can't argue against what could have happened, all leaks are not bad. Yes, your timeline would have changed if your father had been killed by a leak. But if we look at what did happen with Wikileaks esp relative to what Richard Armitage did to Valerie Plame and the CIA and that no known violence has occurred against [redacted] folks from the Wikileaks releases. All leaks and all leakers are not the same. Wikileaks put great effort in working with journalists to carefully redact information and report the news, to shine light where it needed shining. And Dick Army outed an agent and her team and forced it to shut down to harm a political opponent. If anyone belongs in jail it is Dick Army and not Julian Assange.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > Via instant messenger, Manning asked Assange whether Wikileaks could crack NTLM hashes. Assange said (paraphrasing), "Yeah, we can probably do that." Manning sent the hashes. Assange said he'd work on cracking them. A few days later, Manning asked if the hashes had been cracked. Assange replied that there hadn't been any progress. > End of story. That's a federal crime. No hashes were cracked, let alone sent back to Manning. No additional access was gained. He simply agreed to accept the hashes from Manning, which were freely offered. That actually sounds like the crime of criminal conspiracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(criminal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(criminal) > In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future.... > [US] Conspiracy law usually does not require proof of specific intent by the defendants to injure any specific person to establish an illegal agreement. Instead, usually the law requires only that the conspirators have agreed to engage in a certain illegal act. > Under most U.S. laws, for a person to be convicted of conspiracy, not only must he or she agree to commit a crime, but at least one of the conspirators must commit an overt act (the actus reus) in furtherance of the crime.[24] You'd crack the hash as part of a plan (i.e. a conspiracy) to get unauthorized access to a computer system (a crime), and exchanging the hash is the actus reus. There are very good reasons why conspiracy is a crime, and it's very similar to other crimes like attempted murder. If someone plans to kill you, but they're caught before taking their shot, should they go free because no harm was actually done?

JoeSmithson 6y ago

I don't think this is new, she is suspected of sharing a password hash that JA tried to help break. This was the original basis for JA's extradition e.g. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/04/16/unpacking-the-alleged-assange-manning-password-hacking-conspiracy/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrew...

dadjitsu 6y ago

So sad Bradley Manning was psy-opped so badly to go that crazy and then have people like you reinforcing his mental sickness.