6 ms·

>It unsets your default browser, so next time you click a URL from a shortcut, you'll have to re-choose your default browser. Isn’t this exactly the kind of th

>It unsets your default browser, so next time you click a URL from a shortcut, you'll have to re-choose your default browser. Isn’t this exactly the kind of thing that would bring their hallmark antitrust case back to life?

jjoonathan 6y ago
One can hope. I personally suspect Microsoft will argue that reverting certain system settings to defaults every update is SOP because they've been doing it elsewhere. For example: sound settings. My physical Bose headphones show up as 2 different logical bluetooth headphones, one with sound that sucks, and one with sound that doesn't suck. Whenever Windows chooses the one with sound that sucks, I go into sound settings and disable it. This prevents sucky audio for a few months until an update lands, the sound settings get reverted, and the sucky audio returns. Ugh.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  Does your microphone work in the stereo hq audio case? On my headphones the mic only works in the crappy audio mode. Maybe they are trying to "fix" Cortana by un-disabling the bt interface that has a mic? Idk
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    Yes, that's why it happens, but it doesn't make it less obnoxious. It's obnoxious that Microsoft periodically breaks my audio and it's doubly obnoxious that some designer at Bose thought that trading away a physical button for this two-bluetooth-endpoint nonsense was a UX win (or, cynically, a portfolio win). The fact that I've been able to figure out what's going on and am therefore able to work around the problem with only minor inconvenience is neither here nor there. Most users with the same setup will not be in a position to understand or do anything about the problem. Microsoft will degrade their audio, and they will live with it. Same with Edge.
- boardwaalk 6y ago
  My speakers connected via HDMI and monitors w/ HDMI audio did something similar. It seemed like I got duplicate audio devices, depending on which port I used (DisplayPort or HDMI, via an adapter cable or not). The audio driver seemed to get so confused with this it just stopped working. I had to unprotect a deep registry entry and clear out my audio devices, at which time the relevant entries came back after a reboot. Any normal user would have been stuck with reinstalling. It’s quite amazing how many “edges” Windows still has. I’m very close to figuring out how I can have a Windows VM w/ graphics card passthrough just for games on top of Linux. It might have warts too, but at least I can fix it.
- AshamedCaptain 6y ago
  These are the A2DP (stereo audio, but no microphone) and HSP (sucky audio, but microphone) profiles. The system is supposed to switch automatically between them depending on whether microphone input is required. As of today I think no operating system performs this switch correctly. It's been broken in desktop Linux for a couple years now.
  - md5wasp 6y ago
    This is why my "gamer" headphones can use both profiles simultaneously! The game/music/media audio comes through the headphone profile, and chat audio comes through the headset profile. There's even the ability to change the volume-per-logical-device (chatmix). Agree with you that I never got it working consistently in Linux. Just getting normal BT headphones to use A2DP rather than HSP was always a bit tricky. I've not dared try my gamer headphones...
  - fartcannon 6y ago
    Perhaps in yours, but my Linux desktop always uses the proper sound settings, even though I switch constantly between bluetoith headphones and speakers. So maybe YMMV?
    - AshamedCaptain 6y ago
      It is definitely broken for years, search for hsphfpd vs ofono story. I.e. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/-/issues/84 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/-/issue... It used to work much better in the bluez4 era, about a decade ago, than it does now. Do note these are Bluetooth profiles. This is irrelevant to ouput device switching.
Causality1 6y ago
I'd be surprised. It's only recently that W10 stopped fighting the user about changing the default browser away from Edge.
Kipters 6y ago
No, because technically it doesn't unset your default browser. It's default behavior in Windows 10 to ask the user to confirm the default handler for certain URI schemes after a new application capable of handling them is installed. The same would happen after installing any other browser. I can't verify now, but IIRC if you dismiss the dialog the default handler doesn't change, basically it gives you an opportunity to change your default without delving into Settings. Android does something similar.
- Kipters 6y ago
  Another thing: Windows 10 at some point removed the API for changing default URI and file handlers, so they would need to use private APIs for something like that (to be fair, APIs for automatically pinning icons to the Taskbar never existed in the first place, but all Chromium-based browsers do it anyway)
  - smileybarry 6y ago
    Setting file handlers are still allowed IIRC but yes, the default browser API doesn't work anymore and pops up a "select a default browser" widget. IIRC no browser currently force-selects a default browser via private API, except for new Edge if you had old Edge as default (since old Edge is uninstalled at the same time).
    - cptskippy 6y ago
      Yeah it seems like Microsoft is playing both sides. On the one hand they want New Edge to just be a new version of Edge if they already use Old Edge, and on the other they want New Edge to be treated as a new browser if you aren't using Old Edge.
      - cbo100 6y ago
        That's no different to how Firefox or Chrome would do it if I had an old version of either installed. I.e. If Firefox switched to Chromium I would expect the exact same behaviour "New Firefox" and "Old Firefox" is not a distinction.
cptskippy 6y ago
The whole process irks me but I have yet to put my finger on what specifically about it is so bad, probably because it's many aspects. When you install Chrome or Firefox something similar happens, they ask to be default. Same thing happens on Android. What's different here is that the user already has old Edge installed. This is new Edge which is arguably a different app so why not? Idk... I think the full screen unescapable "Ad" that you have to click through for Edge pisses me off more than all the other crap.
- rkagerer 6y ago
  > I have yet to put my finger on what specifically about it is so bad Possibly the liberties they take in presuming to know better than you?
  - cptskippy 6y ago
    Maybe, but I do sometimes appreciate introductions to new features when they're significantly different or improved. From the user's perspective I wouldn't consider Edge to fall into that category. Sure under the covers it's radically different but functionally not so much. I think were the guided tours really annoy me is when they know who I am but insist on showing them to me across all my devices with no escape. I actually got this update a few weeks ago on one of my machines and immediately rattled off bug reports to MS about the fullscreen BS and the importing of FF history. When I received the update on another machine a few days ago, the importing didn't occur. I assumed this was MS correcting an err in judgement but based on the reports that's not the case. The just don't appear to be doing the import step to the same account twice across machines, that's nice I guess... but it's like not having diarrhea gravy poured on the second serving of shit sandwich you're being fed nice.
- rasz 6y ago
  Lack of user input. Extrapolating MS could introduce "new" Edge every week forcing repeating the whole process on 1 billion people.
gfo 6y ago
I want to say no. It does sound close, but at least with what you've cited it gives the appearance of choice.
alex_duf 6y ago
I suspect the behaviour described on reddit is only for the USA, or at least everywhere but not in Europe. If that behaviour is observed in Europe I suspect they'll get the European Commission on their back pretty soon. Anyone can confirm / deny my hypothesis?
- williamvds 6y ago
  Anecdotal data point: I live in the UK and I got this Edge advert when I updated my Windows VM a few days ago. I imagine Microsoft are hoping these tactics will gain them more permanent users (i.e. those who don't know any better) before European regulators belatedly catch up to them.
- Macha 6y ago
  I encountered this in Ireland.
belltaco 6y ago
What antitrust? Windows is a minority in computing devices in the ocean of Android and iPhone devices.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  And computing devices are a minority of electrical devices in the ocean of toasters and toothbrushes.

jjoonathan 6y ago

One can hope. I personally suspect Microsoft will argue that reverting certain system settings to defaults every update is SOP because they've been doing it elsewhere. For example: sound settings. My physical Bose headphones show up as 2 different logical bluetooth headphones, one with sound that sucks, and one with sound that doesn't suck. Whenever Windows chooses the one with sound that sucks, I go into sound settings and disable it. This prevents sucky audio for a few months until an update lands, the sound settings get reverted, and the sucky audio returns. Ugh.

nitrogen 6y ago
Does your microphone work in the stereo hq audio case? On my headphones the mic only works in the crappy audio mode. Maybe they are trying to "fix" Cortana by un-disabling the bt interface that has a mic? Idk
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  Yes, that's why it happens, but it doesn't make it less obnoxious. It's obnoxious that Microsoft periodically breaks my audio and it's doubly obnoxious that some designer at Bose thought that trading away a physical button for this two-bluetooth-endpoint nonsense was a UX win (or, cynically, a portfolio win). The fact that I've been able to figure out what's going on and am therefore able to work around the problem with only minor inconvenience is neither here nor there. Most users with the same setup will not be in a position to understand or do anything about the problem. Microsoft will degrade their audio, and they will live with it. Same with Edge.
boardwaalk 6y ago
My speakers connected via HDMI and monitors w/ HDMI audio did something similar. It seemed like I got duplicate audio devices, depending on which port I used (DisplayPort or HDMI, via an adapter cable or not). The audio driver seemed to get so confused with this it just stopped working. I had to unprotect a deep registry entry and clear out my audio devices, at which time the relevant entries came back after a reboot. Any normal user would have been stuck with reinstalling. It’s quite amazing how many “edges” Windows still has. I’m very close to figuring out how I can have a Windows VM w/ graphics card passthrough just for games on top of Linux. It might have warts too, but at least I can fix it.
AshamedCaptain 6y ago
These are the A2DP (stereo audio, but no microphone) and HSP (sucky audio, but microphone) profiles. The system is supposed to switch automatically between them depending on whether microphone input is required. As of today I think no operating system performs this switch correctly. It's been broken in desktop Linux for a couple years now.
- md5wasp 6y ago
  This is why my "gamer" headphones can use both profiles simultaneously! The game/music/media audio comes through the headphone profile, and chat audio comes through the headset profile. There's even the ability to change the volume-per-logical-device (chatmix). Agree with you that I never got it working consistently in Linux. Just getting normal BT headphones to use A2DP rather than HSP was always a bit tricky. I've not dared try my gamer headphones...
- fartcannon 6y ago
  Perhaps in yours, but my Linux desktop always uses the proper sound settings, even though I switch constantly between bluetoith headphones and speakers. So maybe YMMV?
  - AshamedCaptain 6y ago
    It is definitely broken for years, search for hsphfpd vs ofono story. I.e. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/-/issues/84 https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/-/issue... It used to work much better in the bluez4 era, about a decade ago, than it does now. Do note these are Bluetooth profiles. This is irrelevant to ouput device switching.

Causality1 6y ago

I'd be surprised. It's only recently that W10 stopped fighting the user about changing the default browser away from Edge.

Kipters 6y ago

No, because technically it doesn't unset your default browser. It's default behavior in Windows 10 to ask the user to confirm the default handler for certain URI schemes after a new application capable of handling them is installed. The same would happen after installing any other browser. I can't verify now, but IIRC if you dismiss the dialog the default handler doesn't change, basically it gives you an opportunity to change your default without delving into Settings. Android does something similar.

Kipters 6y ago
Another thing: Windows 10 at some point removed the API for changing default URI and file handlers, so they would need to use private APIs for something like that (to be fair, APIs for automatically pinning icons to the Taskbar never existed in the first place, but all Chromium-based browsers do it anyway)
- smileybarry 6y ago
  Setting file handlers are still allowed IIRC but yes, the default browser API doesn't work anymore and pops up a "select a default browser" widget. IIRC no browser currently force-selects a default browser via private API, except for new Edge if you had old Edge as default (since old Edge is uninstalled at the same time).
  - cptskippy 6y ago
    Yeah it seems like Microsoft is playing both sides. On the one hand they want New Edge to just be a new version of Edge if they already use Old Edge, and on the other they want New Edge to be treated as a new browser if you aren't using Old Edge.
    - cbo100 6y ago
      That's no different to how Firefox or Chrome would do it if I had an old version of either installed. I.e. If Firefox switched to Chromium I would expect the exact same behaviour "New Firefox" and "Old Firefox" is not a distinction.

cptskippy 6y ago

The whole process irks me but I have yet to put my finger on what specifically about it is so bad, probably because it's many aspects. When you install Chrome or Firefox something similar happens, they ask to be default. Same thing happens on Android. What's different here is that the user already has old Edge installed. This is new Edge which is arguably a different app so why not? Idk... I think the full screen unescapable "Ad" that you have to click through for Edge pisses me off more than all the other crap.

rkagerer 6y ago
> I have yet to put my finger on what specifically about it is so bad Possibly the liberties they take in presuming to know better than you?
- cptskippy 6y ago
  Maybe, but I do sometimes appreciate introductions to new features when they're significantly different or improved. From the user's perspective I wouldn't consider Edge to fall into that category. Sure under the covers it's radically different but functionally not so much. I think were the guided tours really annoy me is when they know who I am but insist on showing them to me across all my devices with no escape. I actually got this update a few weeks ago on one of my machines and immediately rattled off bug reports to MS about the fullscreen BS and the importing of FF history. When I received the update on another machine a few days ago, the importing didn't occur. I assumed this was MS correcting an err in judgement but based on the reports that's not the case. The just don't appear to be doing the import step to the same account twice across machines, that's nice I guess... but it's like not having diarrhea gravy poured on the second serving of shit sandwich you're being fed nice.
rasz 6y ago
Lack of user input. Extrapolating MS could introduce "new" Edge every week forcing repeating the whole process on 1 billion people.

gfo 6y ago

I want to say no. It does sound close, but at least with what you've cited it gives the appearance of choice.

alex_duf 6y ago

I suspect the behaviour described on reddit is only for the USA, or at least everywhere but not in Europe. If that behaviour is observed in Europe I suspect they'll get the European Commission on their back pretty soon. Anyone can confirm / deny my hypothesis?

williamvds 6y ago
Anecdotal data point: I live in the UK and I got this Edge advert when I updated my Windows VM a few days ago. I imagine Microsoft are hoping these tactics will gain them more permanent users (i.e. those who don't know any better) before European regulators belatedly catch up to them.
Macha 6y ago
I encountered this in Ireland.

belltaco 6y ago

What antitrust? Windows is a minority in computing devices in the ocean of Android and iPhone devices.

dane-pgp 6y ago
And computing devices are a minority of electrical devices in the ocean of toasters and toothbrushes.