5 ms·

> money transfers are going to be less complex, clunky and costly. You really think the Brazilian central bank is going to make a smooth, efficient, and cheap

> money transfers are going to be less complex, clunky and costly. You really think the Brazilian central bank is going to make a smooth, efficient, and cheap money transfer service? What reason do you have to expect that to work?

diegoholiveira 6y ago
> You really think the Brazilian central bank is going to make a smooth, efficient, and cheap money transfer service They will not do a transfer service, they will provide a specification that must be follow in order to provide instant payments and transfers. To be honest, our central bank is pretty good in create such specifications.
soneca 6y ago
As a Brazilian living in the US I can tell you that the TED system is already a smooth, efficient, and cheap money transfer service compared to the solutions here in the US. So I have total confidence that they are capable of creating a better yet version of it.
- danilocesar 6y ago
  As a Brazilian living in Canada, I can say the same.
  - f00zz 6y ago
    As a Brazilian living in Brazil I'm surprised that anyone would expect a service provided by the Brazilian government to be efficient, or even work at all. This Pix thing seems to cover more than inter-bank transfers, people are expected to use it for QR code-based mobile payments for instance.
    - EL_Loco 6y ago
      The HIV treatment program, provided by the brazilian government for free to everyone that needs it, has been very succesful and is a model to be followed. Not everything the government does is rotten, just a lot of it. "Throughout the 1990s, when the annual cost of drugs for AIDS treatment often exceeded US$10,000 per patient, the World Bank and other development agencies discouraged developing countries from implementing treatment programs, favoring “cost-effective” prevention over costly treatment. Brazil challenged this conventional wisdom and, despite World Bank objections, has provided free universal access to highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) for all people living with HIV/AIDS since 1996." source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782963/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782963/
    - fredguth 6y ago
      You have a very narrow world-view. You can not even imagine...
- centimeter 6y ago
  What solutions have you tried in the US? Venmo and Cash App are both free and work up to like $2500, at which point you have to deal with government systems like ACH and it gets slow and expensive.
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    The US banking system is archaic compared to elegant systems like they have in Australia/New Zealand (and probably Europe). No malicious rent-seeking third parties needed in the transaction.
    - jryle70 6y ago
      Perhaps you should do a little bit more research. Zelle allows payment between banks (almost) instantly. No fee, since it's a service owned by participating banks, practically all major banks in the US. Zelle processed $187 billion in 2019. https://www.zellepay.com/get-started https://www.zellepay.com/get-started
      - mixmastamyk 6y ago
        Perhaps you should do a little research and find that the rest of the world has been doing that between all banks for a decade or two. Not mention its ubiquity that allows everyone from teens to grandparents to pay .25 for a cookie, to dropping a down payment, to paying bills, to filing taxes, to automating a weekly rent check. Basically an elegant single system required for modern life. The fact zelle, launched in 2017, has a brand name, and competes for mindshare illustrates how they missed the target. In other countries it’s called banking.
radmuzom 6y ago
Pretty sure you are viewing it from an American perspective. India has had a government created smooth efficient money transfer service for >17 years now. There are multiple systems - all created by the government - and they work perfectly almost all of the time.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Just wondering (not criticising), why would the government create and run multiple systems doing the same? Is this something to do with the differences between regional states in India?
doublesCs 6y ago
Has worked elsewhere. Here in the UK, money transfer is mind boggingly fast, and free.
- pjc50 6y ago
  EU "faster payments" system. We don't quite have the last mile of hooking it up to apps with QR codes, though. To add another to the list, see Norway's VIPPS.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 6y ago
    Is this what replaced ACH in the EU? It baffles me that it still takes 2-3 business days to perform transfers in the US over ACH.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  It is everywhere in Europe but there is a problem with IBAN transfers. It exposes a lot of details, like your name and your bank branch, to the receiver. And some sites accept IBAN numbers for small payments without any other kind of authentication. It's an electronic version of the times when we used to mail transfer cards to do transfers, but this day and age needs a lot more privacy protection. Same with other old tech like the phonebook. Who gets themselves listed anymore? It leaves you open to way much spam and scammy crap calls.
raverbashing 6y ago
Brazilians can already do inter-bank money transfers using their bank accounts apps cheaply. Pix is an improvement over those systems (shorter processing times - as in seconds instead of minutes) and checks are almost nonexistent.
- danilocesar 6y ago
  I wouldn't say cheaply... Unless you have a digital-only account or has a high-class account (like VanGogh,Personalitté, etc) it's cost almost 9 BRL for a inter-bank transfer.
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    9 BRL is what? 2 USD? Compare with https://answers.usbank.com/answers/s/article/How-much-does-a-wire-transfer-cost https://answers.usbank.com/answers/s/article/How-much-does-a... (spoiler alert: 10x more - for both senders and receivers) Whatsapp transfers would be ~ 5% of the cost which would make it more expensive for anything over 200BRL Meanwhile inside the SEPA Area (EU), National and International payments have the same cost (which is usually 0)
    - centimeter 6y ago
      In the US I pay $0 for transfers under like $2500 using various free services like Venmo or Cash App.
      - raverbashing 6y ago
        Good to know Do business accept Venmo (I know some do, though it seems Venmo is backed by a pre-paid card)? Can you pay your rent with it, for example? Tuition? Buy a car with it? The payment methods I mentioned don't require people to install an app or enter an agreement, you have a bank account they're available to you. Sure, there's some typing of numbers (but that's pretty much a copy-paste today). Not to mention the privacy issues with Venmo.
Natsu 6y ago
Well, they've done pretty well in the past. I'd worry more about random ATM outages from Banco do Brasil than the standard being bad. Brazil is pretty far ahead of the USA when it comes to money transfers, though I grant that this is a pretty low bar.

diegoholiveira 6y ago

> You really think the Brazilian central bank is going to make a smooth, efficient, and cheap money transfer service They will not do a transfer service, they will provide a specification that must be follow in order to provide instant payments and transfers. To be honest, our central bank is pretty good in create such specifications.

soneca 6y ago

As a Brazilian living in the US I can tell you that the TED system is already a smooth, efficient, and cheap money transfer service compared to the solutions here in the US. So I have total confidence that they are capable of creating a better yet version of it.

danilocesar 6y ago
As a Brazilian living in Canada, I can say the same.
- f00zz 6y ago
  As a Brazilian living in Brazil I'm surprised that anyone would expect a service provided by the Brazilian government to be efficient, or even work at all. This Pix thing seems to cover more than inter-bank transfers, people are expected to use it for QR code-based mobile payments for instance.
  - EL_Loco 6y ago
    The HIV treatment program, provided by the brazilian government for free to everyone that needs it, has been very succesful and is a model to be followed. Not everything the government does is rotten, just a lot of it. "Throughout the 1990s, when the annual cost of drugs for AIDS treatment often exceeded US$10,000 per patient, the World Bank and other development agencies discouraged developing countries from implementing treatment programs, favoring “cost-effective” prevention over costly treatment. Brazil challenged this conventional wisdom and, despite World Bank objections, has provided free universal access to highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) for all people living with HIV/AIDS since 1996." source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782963/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782963/
  - fredguth 6y ago
    You have a very narrow world-view. You can not even imagine...
centimeter 6y ago
What solutions have you tried in the US? Venmo and Cash App are both free and work up to like $2500, at which point you have to deal with government systems like ACH and it gets slow and expensive.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  The US banking system is archaic compared to elegant systems like they have in Australia/New Zealand (and probably Europe). No malicious rent-seeking third parties needed in the transaction.
  - jryle70 6y ago
    Perhaps you should do a little bit more research. Zelle allows payment between banks (almost) instantly. No fee, since it's a service owned by participating banks, practically all major banks in the US. Zelle processed $187 billion in 2019. https://www.zellepay.com/get-started https://www.zellepay.com/get-started
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      Perhaps you should do a little research and find that the rest of the world has been doing that between all banks for a decade or two. Not mention its ubiquity that allows everyone from teens to grandparents to pay .25 for a cookie, to dropping a down payment, to paying bills, to filing taxes, to automating a weekly rent check. Basically an elegant single system required for modern life. The fact zelle, launched in 2017, has a brand name, and competes for mindshare illustrates how they missed the target. In other countries it’s called banking.

radmuzom 6y ago

Pretty sure you are viewing it from an American perspective. India has had a government created smooth efficient money transfer service for >17 years now. There are multiple systems - all created by the government - and they work perfectly almost all of the time.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
GekkePrutser 6y ago
Just wondering (not criticising), why would the government create and run multiple systems doing the same? Is this something to do with the differences between regional states in India?

doublesCs 6y ago

Has worked elsewhere. Here in the UK, money transfer is mind boggingly fast, and free.

pjc50 6y ago
EU "faster payments" system. We don't quite have the last mile of hooking it up to apps with QR codes, though. To add another to the list, see Norway's VIPPS.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 6y ago
  Is this what replaced ACH in the EU? It baffles me that it still takes 2-3 business days to perform transfers in the US over ACH.
GekkePrutser 6y ago
It is everywhere in Europe but there is a problem with IBAN transfers. It exposes a lot of details, like your name and your bank branch, to the receiver. And some sites accept IBAN numbers for small payments without any other kind of authentication. It's an electronic version of the times when we used to mail transfer cards to do transfers, but this day and age needs a lot more privacy protection. Same with other old tech like the phonebook. Who gets themselves listed anymore? It leaves you open to way much spam and scammy crap calls.

raverbashing 6y ago

Brazilians can already do inter-bank money transfers using their bank accounts apps cheaply. Pix is an improvement over those systems (shorter processing times - as in seconds instead of minutes) and checks are almost nonexistent.

danilocesar 6y ago
I wouldn't say cheaply... Unless you have a digital-only account or has a high-class account (like VanGogh,Personalitté, etc) it's cost almost 9 BRL for a inter-bank transfer.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  9 BRL is what? 2 USD? Compare with https://answers.usbank.com/answers/s/article/How-much-does-a-wire-transfer-cost https://answers.usbank.com/answers/s/article/How-much-does-a... (spoiler alert: 10x more - for both senders and receivers) Whatsapp transfers would be ~ 5% of the cost which would make it more expensive for anything over 200BRL Meanwhile inside the SEPA Area (EU), National and International payments have the same cost (which is usually 0)
  - centimeter 6y ago
    In the US I pay $0 for transfers under like $2500 using various free services like Venmo or Cash App.
    - raverbashing 6y ago
      Good to know Do business accept Venmo (I know some do, though it seems Venmo is backed by a pre-paid card)? Can you pay your rent with it, for example? Tuition? Buy a car with it? The payment methods I mentioned don't require people to install an app or enter an agreement, you have a bank account they're available to you. Sure, there's some typing of numbers (but that's pretty much a copy-paste today). Not to mention the privacy issues with Venmo.

Natsu 6y ago

Well, they've done pretty well in the past. I'd worry more about random ATM outages from Banco do Brasil than the standard being bad. Brazil is pretty far ahead of the USA when it comes to money transfers, though I grant that this is a pretty low bar.