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How about them delivery trucks and waste cardboard boxes? Those data centers can also generate a lot of emissions. Amazon is throwing spare change at a massing
by 1-6 6y ago
How about them delivery trucks and waste cardboard boxes? Those data centers can also generate a lot of emissions. Amazon is throwing spare change at a massing problem they're involved in.
- pen2l 6y agoBut you’ve gotta admit they’re like 10 times better than the alternative. I mean, their whole operation is optimized up the wazoo. Imagine the time saved, the carbon emissions saved when folks don’t have to drive to and back to get their stuff. I’m kind of hooked on this grocery delivery stuff too now, so much time and headache and gas saved.
- 1-6 6y agoIt just sounds like a PR stunt. They already have data centers which are under scrutiny for energy use and reducing packaging helps their bottom line as well. That's why I say it's 'spare change' for them.
- skrebbel 6y ago> But you’ve gotta admit they’re like 10 times better than the alternative. Not if the alternative is bikeable and walkable cities with decent public transport, though.
- bananabreakfast 6y agoI think they meant reasonable alternative. American cities are not (for the most part) bikeable and certainly not walkable. Literally everything is designed to be driven to in a car. The decent public transport would help, but since it's been made a political issue it's not exactly as easy as just working within the constraints of the system.
- Kalium 6y agoOK. Let's say a magic wand is waved, and all of us Americans have bikeable and walkable cities with excellent public transportation. Let's say this happens literally overnight. How do you expect this would change Amazon's logistics and how favorable they are for consumers? For my part, at the very least, I'm still likely to get a lot of things delivered. Local stores are very rarely cheaper for anything non-immediate and delivery takes much less of my time than going to a store and back. At a guess, Amazon's still better than this alternative for many scenarios. Maybe not ten times better, but still better.
- bttrfl 6y agoPerhaps, we should wave this magic wand to make you order less stuff? No tech can save us unless we start to consume less. Also, we should care less about optimising our time which we are likely to waste anyway on netflix and co.
- Kalium 6y agoI'm a very strange person in many ways. I personally prefer to be able to make my own choices about how I waste away my free time - Netflix, books, biking, walks, prayer, meditation, yoga, etc. Trading that in for spending more time to get my groceries (or toiletries, or dry goods, or similar) does not sound like an attractive choice to me. I understand that this is an unusual personality trait. Still, I'm reluctant to give it up.
- bttrfl 6y agoI don't think this is about "attractive choices". Either our lifestyles (and those who will live after us) are sustainable or not. If they are not, we should consider changing our behaviour.
- smooth_remmy 6y ago> Please stop buying stuff. It's bad for the environment. But also keep working - we need you paying your taxes! If I'm morally not allowed to buy stuff because its bad for the environment, then what incentive do I have to earn more than 40k/year? Do I exist just to pay taxes to the government to fund "more moral" causes than my own consumption?
- bttrfl 6y agoIs this a genuine question? There is no obligation to make more than 40k. Instead of making more money you could just work less and do what you like/love (as long as it's not bad for environment).
- nradov 6y ago
- nostromo 6y agoDear Jeff Bezos: Amazon is great and all, but instead can you rebuild all of America to be denser walkable cities, with a great public rail system? Signed, Hacker News
- skrebbel 6y agoOh come on, I suggested nothing of the sort and you know it. You're not assuming good faith. My remark is only that if delivery is better for the environment than going shopping, then that is a sign of a badly planned city (in terms of climate impact). Well-optimized delivery will address a symptom but not the cause. The cause is cities built for cars.
- pathseeker 6y agoUnless you're getting all of your Amazon stuff in a single box in the weekly option, it's not really better. Driving 3 miles once a week to get everything from a store is better than 7 boxes a week + delivery increased truck load.
- rawrenstein 6y agoDon't forget that that delivery truck isn't just delivering boxes for you.
- pkaye 6y agoThere is an option on Amazon to deliver on a single day of the week.
- jakelazaroff 6y agoThere's an induced demand factor too, though. People are buying more stuff now because it's easy to get.
- dandigangi 6y agoI agree with you. It's worth noting 0 emissions is impossible so things carbon offsets exist to counter that when you cant get to 0. Another way to look at it might be that investing in those companies by yield solutions to them that address what you mentioned above. That's my hope at least.
- kevan 6y agoDisclaimer: I work at Amazon, views are my own. Delivery trucks: 100,000 trucks at $70k each = $7 billion investment over 5 years. [1] Datacenters: 80% renewable energy by 2024, 100% by 2030 [2] For boxes, I'd agree that there's a lot of room for improvement in reduction in cardboard use and packaging reuse. Everyone should come to their own conclusions about whether companies are doing enough in each area. For delivery trucks in particular I'd call the investments happening there much more than "spare change". [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/19/20873947/amazon-electric-delivery-van-rivian-jeff-bezos-order https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/19/20873947/amazon-electric-... [2] https://blog.aboutamazon.com/sustainability/reducing-carbon-by-moving-to-aws https://blog.aboutamazon.com/sustainability/reducing-carbon-...
- chiefalchemist 6y agoAgreed. This isn't an investment is climate tech. It's an investment in Amazon's future, which is dependant on the current - consumption focused - status quo.
- paxys 6y agoAmazon has actually done a great job in making manufacturers reduce plastic/clamshell packaging for their products, so the cardboard boxes are definitely a net improvement.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago> Amazon is throwing spare change at a massing problem they're involved in. Yes, the point is that they're investing in efforts to help deal with some of their own externalities. We shouldn't be shaming a company for having the self-awareness to do this to the tune of billions of dollars. It's not fair to criticize the amount, either, because $2 billion goes a long way to getting technology companies off the ground. Throwing more money at the problem doesn't produce better outcomes at this stage of the R&D pipeline. $2 billion is a lot of money.
- ronnier 6y agoHacker news is a total unnecessary luxury. By using it, you are contributing to the problem. This website consumes resources and energy to run and view.
- mythrowaway59 6y agoNo good deed goes unpunished.
- Paul-ish 6y agoI've sometimes wondered if rather than recycling paper and cardboard we could sequester it, trapping the carbon.
- ip26 6y agoThe good news is corrugated cardboard is one of the most recyclable materials, with a high market value for recycled cardboard. It's probably not the biggest problem right now.