4 ms·

The "old school" style they're advertising is mostly based off of Dyson Logo's maps. I think it's interesting that this seem to come out after Dyson started tea

The "old school" style they're advertising is mostly based off of Dyson Logo's maps. I think it's interesting that this seem to come out after Dyson started teasing a similar program for his Patreon subscribers. On one hand, it's a great looking piece of software, but it feels a little scummy to write software that heavily leans on Dyson's style and then directly compete with him.

e12e 6y ago
Is this somehow distinctive from Dragon Magazine / Dungeon Magazine from the late 80s in a way I'm not seeing? Or eg. the various TSR boxed settings with dungeons?
- kemayo 6y ago
  That cross-hatching-in-the-walls thing is fairly distinct, and I saw it immediately on Dyson's blog but not on a quick survey of old Dragon/Dungeon maps. That said, Dyson is clearly going for that aesthetic mostly, so it could be convergent evolution, and I'm hardly up to date on current styles for maps in other places.
  - lakkal 6y ago
    The style really reminds me of old Chaosium maps, from the 1980s.
  - pharke 6y ago
    Just taking a look at Dungeon Magazine on archive.org and it seems that crosshatching in walls is pretty common, at least in the early editions. https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n25/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n25/mo... https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n45/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n45/mo... https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n51/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n51/mo... https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_003/page/n31/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_003/page/n31/mo... https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_003/page/n41/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_003/page/n41/mo...
- richard_mcp 6y ago
  I never read those magazines and I can't say I'm an expert on dungeon map styles, but it's the hatching done in the dungeon walls that Dyson is known for (e.g., https://dysonlogos.blog/2011/09/03/dungeon-doodles-a-crosshatching-tutorial/ https://dysonlogos.blog/2011/09/03/dungeon-doodles-a-crossha...). It looks like the person that made this program started playing around with the idea May 9 (https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1259172635776294912 https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1259172635776294912) a day after Dyson started tweeting about his program (https://twitter.com/DysonLogos/status/1258797586464542723 https://twitter.com/DysonLogos/status/1258797586464542723). I think Dyson's program is just a Photoshop extension and Dungeon Scrawl looks way more powerful, but it's worth pointing out the very similar timelines and styles.
  - BorisTheBrave 6y ago
    Here's someone playing with the concept even earlier though. It did the rounds on reddit at the time, so I'd assumed it was the inspiration. https://twitter.com/watawatabou/status/1197194111171940352 https://twitter.com/watawatabou/status/1197194111171940352 (in aother tweet, @watawatabou attributes the style to Dyson, though the idea of doing it programatically).
- nickthegreek 6y ago
  Dungeonscrawl is definitely inspired by Dyson. Here are some tweets by the maker: https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1259172635776294912?s=20 https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1259172635776294912... https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1258821040937013248?s=20 https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1258821040937013248...
probabletrain 6y ago
Actually, development started before Dyson's Photoshop product, and sure it leans on his style, but the hatching existed before and was popularised by him. It's a common style across many existing dungeon mapping tools, and just one of the styles offered by the tool.
- richard_mcp 6y ago
  I'm glad to hear that! The style is very popular in the drawn maps I've seen. I haven't been interested in maps for long and don't pay too much attention to digital map programs. I associate the style with Dyson, as that what I've heard other people do. I first saw you tweeting about the program after I saw Dyson's tweet and the Dungeon Scrawl site says the development began on May 8th, which is why I thought the timeline looked a little suspect. I'm happy to hear that's not the case.
  - sbarre 6y ago
    I was hand-drawing cross-hatched style maps on graph paper in the early 90s when I was a teenager running my own campaigns, and I certainly don't claim to have invented it either.. Mine didn't look quite so good though. ;-)
    - e12e 6y ago
      Yeah, this was kind of my mindset, too. Hatching is certainly an old trick, and I see the "Dyson hatch" is somewhat distinctive - but for me, knowing "old school" maps, it didn't stand out from the other offered styles - and certainly lived up to the promise of "old school" look and feel :)
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    FWIW, I just pulled open my red-box era OD&D books and the maps are all hatched in various styles when underground, but stippled (kind of a grassy texture) to indicate exterior; so e.g. a for a keep in the side of a mountain it would be clear which walls abut solid matter and which are stone. The maps in the basic set use circles rather than lines for the hatching though.
wishinghand 6y ago
Dyson's tool (which is more like an art asset) is pretty much Photoshop only, which is prohibitive to some. I signed up for their Patreon when they first previewed it, thinking I could use it with Affinity Photo. There's some layer combination features missing that means it's PS only.
woah 6y ago
This is a very common hatching style that I have seen countless times.

e12e 6y ago

Is this somehow distinctive from Dragon Magazine / Dungeon Magazine from the late 80s in a way I'm not seeing? Or eg. the various TSR boxed settings with dungeons?

kemayo 6y ago
That cross-hatching-in-the-walls thing is fairly distinct, and I saw it immediately on Dyson's blog but not on a quick survey of old Dragon/Dungeon maps. That said, Dyson is clearly going for that aesthetic mostly, so it could be convergent evolution, and I'm hardly up to date on current styles for maps in other places.
- lakkal 6y ago
  The style really reminds me of old Chaosium maps, from the 1980s.
- pharke 6y ago
  Just taking a look at Dungeon Magazine on archive.org and it seems that crosshatching in walls is pretty common, at least in the early editions. https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n25/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n25/mo... https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n45/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n45/mo... https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n51/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_002/page/n51/mo... https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_003/page/n31/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_003/page/n31/mo... https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_003/page/n41/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/Dungeon_Magazine_003/page/n41/mo...
richard_mcp 6y ago
I never read those magazines and I can't say I'm an expert on dungeon map styles, but it's the hatching done in the dungeon walls that Dyson is known for (e.g., https://dysonlogos.blog/2011/09/03/dungeon-doodles-a-crosshatching-tutorial/ https://dysonlogos.blog/2011/09/03/dungeon-doodles-a-crossha...). It looks like the person that made this program started playing around with the idea May 9 (https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1259172635776294912 https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1259172635776294912) a day after Dyson started tweeting about his program (https://twitter.com/DysonLogos/status/1258797586464542723 https://twitter.com/DysonLogos/status/1258797586464542723). I think Dyson's program is just a Photoshop extension and Dungeon Scrawl looks way more powerful, but it's worth pointing out the very similar timelines and styles.
- BorisTheBrave 6y ago
  Here's someone playing with the concept even earlier though. It did the rounds on reddit at the time, so I'd assumed it was the inspiration. https://twitter.com/watawatabou/status/1197194111171940352 https://twitter.com/watawatabou/status/1197194111171940352 (in aother tweet, @watawatabou attributes the style to Dyson, though the idea of doing it programatically).
nickthegreek 6y ago
Dungeonscrawl is definitely inspired by Dyson. Here are some tweets by the maker: https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1259172635776294912?s=20 https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1259172635776294912... https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1258821040937013248?s=20 https://twitter.com/probabletrain/status/1258821040937013248...

probabletrain 6y ago

Actually, development started before Dyson's Photoshop product, and sure it leans on his style, but the hatching existed before and was popularised by him. It's a common style across many existing dungeon mapping tools, and just one of the styles offered by the tool.

richard_mcp 6y ago
I'm glad to hear that! The style is very popular in the drawn maps I've seen. I haven't been interested in maps for long and don't pay too much attention to digital map programs. I associate the style with Dyson, as that what I've heard other people do. I first saw you tweeting about the program after I saw Dyson's tweet and the Dungeon Scrawl site says the development began on May 8th, which is why I thought the timeline looked a little suspect. I'm happy to hear that's not the case.
- sbarre 6y ago
  I was hand-drawing cross-hatched style maps on graph paper in the early 90s when I was a teenager running my own campaigns, and I certainly don't claim to have invented it either.. Mine didn't look quite so good though. ;-)
  - e12e 6y ago
    Yeah, this was kind of my mindset, too. Hatching is certainly an old trick, and I see the "Dyson hatch" is somewhat distinctive - but for me, knowing "old school" maps, it didn't stand out from the other offered styles - and certainly lived up to the promise of "old school" look and feel :)
- aidenn0 6y ago
  FWIW, I just pulled open my red-box era OD&D books and the maps are all hatched in various styles when underground, but stippled (kind of a grassy texture) to indicate exterior; so e.g. a for a keep in the side of a mountain it would be clear which walls abut solid matter and which are stone. The maps in the basic set use circles rather than lines for the hatching though.

wishinghand 6y ago

Dyson's tool (which is more like an art asset) is pretty much Photoshop only, which is prohibitive to some. I signed up for their Patreon when they first previewed it, thinking I could use it with Affinity Photo. There's some layer combination features missing that means it's PS only.

woah 6y ago

This is a very common hatching style that I have seen countless times.