4 ms·

> I love to debate and hear ideas from those I disagree with The right may take the cake as far as hypocrisy goes in general, but the one thing that pisses me

by epr 6y ago

> I love to debate and hear ideas from those I disagree with The right may take the cake as far as hypocrisy goes in general, but the one thing that pisses me off the most about the left is their lip service to open-mindedness. I often wonder if they do in fact believe it themselves. > They are using your statement to appeal to others to listen and accept their clearly racist ideas or provable wrong, anti-science ideas With the continuously widening scope of what could be considered "racist" or "anti-science", I suppose there won't be much left to debate soon enough.

matwood 6y ago
I don't know if you are implying that I'm from the left. I'm not either left or right, although as the right has moved righter I guess I have become relatively more left by staying in the middle :) > With the continuously widening scope of what could be considered "racist" or "anti-science" I agree this is a danger. But in my original comment, I'm referring to basics. Evidence has mounted that masks work, yet people still physically fight over wearing one. Evidence has mounted (IMO overwhelmingly) that HCQ does not work and is even dangerous, yet people keep saying that's all they need to survive COVID. Then there are the anti-vaxxers. It's a concern that even after a vaccine is found, it's possible not enough people will even get the vaccine to reach herd immunity[1]. [1] https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/05/04/a-majority-of-vaccine-skeptics-plan-to-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccine-a-study-suggests/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/05/04/a-majority-of-vaccine...
- wrycoder 6y ago
  IMHO, the left has moved at least as far left as the right has moved to the right. The polarization has increased markedly. The other change is the vast increase in the speed of interaction and the number of vocal, anonymous individuals involved. There’s no time for reflection anymore.
- wrycoder 6y ago
  Regarding HCQ, it’s only useful in combination with zinc, and only useful before hospitalization. The studies often cited seem to studiously ignore this. Given those caveats, there have been many successes.
  - matwood 6y ago
    Successful valid studies? This summarizes the issues with all the earlier studies, even ones with zinc [1]. The problem with all the success anecdotes is correlation does not mean causation. The odds are low that I'm going to walk outside and die. If I walk outside while picking my nose and don't die, it doesn't mean picking my nose is stopping my death. The large majority of people recover from COVID doing nothing at all. Finding efficacy of any drug requires controlled studies. [1] https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/miracle-cure-testimonials-aside-azithromycin-and-hydroxychloroquine-probably-do-not-work-against-covid-19/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/miracle-cure-testimonials-a...
    - wrycoder 6y ago
      Well, looking at that article, it appears the author is out to debunk HCQ. The language is hyperbolic - when I see something like that, I don't give it much credence. For an alternate take from the blogosphere, https://scienceblog.com/516960/suppression-of-chloroquine-is-scandalous/ https://scienceblog.com/516960/suppression-of-chloroquine-is... I've been following HCQ/Zinc long before it got politicized. It's well known that covid is a disaster in nursing homes, often resulting in 30% deaths. Here's some anecdotal evidence of early treatment with HCQ in that setting: https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-elderly-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-treatment-texas-city/287-7383185c-940c-4cb2-82ea-c4a5ffad3ffb https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-e... Here's a journal article claiming positive results. It's had over 300 citations, so there's probably some interesting reading there: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/14/1/14_2020.01047/_article https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/14/1/14_2020.01047/... Causation generally requires some theory to support it: https://www.jewishpress.com/news/us-news/ny/scientists-study-coronavirus-attack-on-hemoglobin-test-new-treatments-with-old-standbys/2020/04/10/ https://www.jewishpress.com/news/us-news/ny/scientists-study... I'm 78, so I'm paying attention. Here's the best guidance I've seen so far. (They have backed off on HCQ because of all the political flap.) https://www.evms.edu/covid-19/covid_care_for_clinicians/#covidcare https://www.evms.edu/covid-19/covid_care_for_clinicians/#cov...

by epr 6y ago

matwood 6y ago

I don't know if you are implying that I'm from the left. I'm not either left or right, although as the right has moved righter I guess I have become relatively more left by staying in the middle :) > With the continuously widening scope of what could be considered "racist" or "anti-science" I agree this is a danger. But in my original comment, I'm referring to basics. Evidence has mounted that masks work, yet people still physically fight over wearing one. Evidence has mounted (IMO overwhelmingly) that HCQ does not work and is even dangerous, yet people keep saying that's all they need to survive COVID. Then there are the anti-vaxxers. It's a concern that even after a vaccine is found, it's possible not enough people will even get the vaccine to reach herd immunity[1]. [1] https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/05/04/a-majority-of-vaccine-skeptics-plan-to-refuse-a-covid-19-vaccine-a-study-suggests/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/05/04/a-majority-of-vaccine...

wrycoder 6y ago
IMHO, the left has moved at least as far left as the right has moved to the right. The polarization has increased markedly. The other change is the vast increase in the speed of interaction and the number of vocal, anonymous individuals involved. There’s no time for reflection anymore.
wrycoder 6y ago
Regarding HCQ, it’s only useful in combination with zinc, and only useful before hospitalization. The studies often cited seem to studiously ignore this. Given those caveats, there have been many successes.
- matwood 6y ago
  Successful valid studies? This summarizes the issues with all the earlier studies, even ones with zinc [1]. The problem with all the success anecdotes is correlation does not mean causation. The odds are low that I'm going to walk outside and die. If I walk outside while picking my nose and don't die, it doesn't mean picking my nose is stopping my death. The large majority of people recover from COVID doing nothing at all. Finding efficacy of any drug requires controlled studies. [1] https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/miracle-cure-testimonials-aside-azithromycin-and-hydroxychloroquine-probably-do-not-work-against-covid-19/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/miracle-cure-testimonials-a...
  - wrycoder 6y ago
    Well, looking at that article, it appears the author is out to debunk HCQ. The language is hyperbolic - when I see something like that, I don't give it much credence. For an alternate take from the blogosphere, https://scienceblog.com/516960/suppression-of-chloroquine-is-scandalous/ https://scienceblog.com/516960/suppression-of-chloroquine-is... I've been following HCQ/Zinc long before it got politicized. It's well known that covid is a disaster in nursing homes, often resulting in 30% deaths. Here's some anecdotal evidence of early treatment with HCQ in that setting: https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-elderly-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-treatment-texas-city/287-7383185c-940c-4cb2-82ea-c4a5ffad3ffb https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-e... Here's a journal article claiming positive results. It's had over 300 citations, so there's probably some interesting reading there: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/14/1/14_2020.01047/_article https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bst/14/1/14_2020.01047/... Causation generally requires some theory to support it: https://www.jewishpress.com/news/us-news/ny/scientists-study-coronavirus-attack-on-hemoglobin-test-new-treatments-with-old-standbys/2020/04/10/ https://www.jewishpress.com/news/us-news/ny/scientists-study... I'm 78, so I'm paying attention. Here's the best guidance I've seen so far. (They have backed off on HCQ because of all the political flap.) https://www.evms.edu/covid-19/covid_care_for_clinicians/#covidcare https://www.evms.edu/covid-19/covid_care_for_clinicians/#cov...