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This is welcomed. Matrix is very cool. However, the lack of Matrix branding in clients always felt like unnecessary self hobbling. I get that the environment

This is welcomed. Matrix is very cool. However, the lack of Matrix branding in clients always felt like unnecessary self hobbling. I get that the environment is heterogeneous. It just felt a bit too lacking in clear branding compared to something like Signal. “Is that Matrix?” “Yes! Although technically matrix is the protocol. This is FluffyChat connected to my local HackerSpace’s Matrix instance.”

notthemessiah 6y ago
To be fair, unlike Signal, Matrix forces users to manage their own encryption keys across devices (or at the very least, be aware of them), so a client-protocol confusion is relatively a lesser concern. It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser.
- roganartu 6y ago
  > It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser. That’s because swathes of people simply conflate the two. To a lot of people the icon for their web browser may as well just be called “The Internet”. I’ve heard that some single digit percentage of Google searches are people searching for Facebook. I think you give too much credit to the level of technical knowledge of the average person.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    There’s a good reason to search your preferred search service for ‘Facebook.com’ or your internet banking website: You’re a lot less likely to try to browse to an incorrect spelling of the domain name.
    - tehbeard 6y ago
      Because Google search results are the absolute truth and can in no way be gamed by nefarious third parties, right? Bookmarks, the solution you are looking for is bookmarks.
      - zentiggr 6y ago
        I think you give too much credit to the level of technical knowledge of the average person.
        catalogia 6y ago
        The average person can't figure out bookmarks now? Do you suppose they also don't know how to tie their own shoes? Most people aren't imbeciles and using bookmarks is well within their capabilities.
        BrandoElFollito 6y ago
        Apparently you have never done support to non-technical users. They understand mouse, keyboard, screen,... and Internet, which is their browser. This is not to make fun of them. I drive a car and only know where to pour gas. I have zero interest in anything else in the car, I just want it to work. Carburator? Spare tire? Not interested.
        catalogia 6y ago
        "Doing support" gives you a very obvious selection bias: The people who come to you are the people who need help. The people who don't need help don't come to you and go unnoticed. I strongly encourage you to reflect on this and rethink your misanthropic attitude. If you like car analogies so much, the car equivalent of bookmarks is programming the radio's bookmark buttons to tune your favorite stations. I am not a car mechanic, but I sure as shit can do that much. For that matter, I also know that my car doesn't have a carburetor but has a spare 'donut' tire in the trunk. You too probably know these things of your own car. Again, I am not a car mechanic and neither am I some sort of polymath genius with advanced general knowledge across a broad number of domains. Cars interest me about as much as American football, which is to say not even remotely. I'm just a regular Joe who's not a complete imbecile.
        BrandoElFollito 6y ago
  - peteretep 6y ago
    > I’ve heard that some single digit percentage of Google searches are people searching for Facebook 50% of the time when going to Facebook I mess up the typing and end up searching for it instead. I suspect that means I’m in those stats.
    - magicalhippo 6y ago
      Or worse, you mess up and end up on some phishing site. For people like my mom, I've explicitly told them to search things rather than type in URLs directly.
      - TuringTest 6y ago
        I consider myself quite experienced in technology, and I do that whenever I go to a popular website that it's not in my browser history. I simply don't trust the variety of .com, .org, .net, .io, .tv... domains to know which one is the right one, but Google organic first results below the ads are usually accurate. For downloading software for which I don't know the publisher's name, I usually look for the Wikipedia article and check the "official website" external link. Sometimes I even double-check the article's history, just to be sure.
  - Biep 6y ago
    > It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser. Though "the web" and "the Internet" are harder to keep apart for many.
- squeaky-clean 6y ago
  A lot of people who are not particularly computer literate do not really grasp the difference between the web, the browser, and the search engine. Generally it's all just "the google" or similar. At least from my limited tech support experience.
Arathorn 6y ago
To be clear: Riot's new name is not going to use the word Matrix - any more than Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Edge etc use the word "Web". Riot is just one client for Matrix, and it'd be completely unfair if it tried to hijack the name Matrix for its own purposes - and I'd hope that the Matrix.org Foundation would take steps to stop such a thing from happening. So I'm afraid the whole "Is that Matrix?", "Yes, I'm using FluffyChat/Riot/Whatever to connect to Matrix" conversation is still going to be there. Just like someone might say "ooh, what Web Browser is that?". This much is a feature, not a bug.
- bhauer 6y ago
  Indeed. I hope the name is somehow related to Matrix, however, so that the connection is a bit more obvious. Perhaps Transform or Neo.
  - Arathorn 6y ago
    Tragically most of those names have gone (e.g. https://matrix.org/docs/projects/server/transform https://matrix.org/docs/projects/server/transform) - and in the case of Neo, have gone many times over: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/neo https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/neo, https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/nio https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/nio, https://matrix.org/docs/projects/sdk/matrix-nio https://matrix.org/docs/projects/sdk/matrix-nio, etc :D
    - Markoff 6y ago
      that's no reason why it could not be again reused
      - opan 6y ago
        Name collision in general is not good, but also in this specific case they've had issues being confused with the game company called Riot, so I can't imagine they would want to go with an already-used name again if they could help it.
  - 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

notthemessiah 6y ago

To be fair, unlike Signal, Matrix forces users to manage their own encryption keys across devices (or at the very least, be aware of them), so a client-protocol confusion is relatively a lesser concern. It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser.

roganartu 6y ago
> It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser. That’s because swathes of people simply conflate the two. To a lot of people the icon for their web browser may as well just be called “The Internet”. I’ve heard that some single digit percentage of Google searches are people searching for Facebook. I think you give too much credit to the level of technical knowledge of the average person.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  There’s a good reason to search your preferred search service for ‘Facebook.com’ or your internet banking website: You’re a lot less likely to try to browse to an incorrect spelling of the domain name.
  - tehbeard 6y ago
    Because Google search results are the absolute truth and can in no way be gamed by nefarious third parties, right? Bookmarks, the solution you are looking for is bookmarks.
    - zentiggr 6y ago
      I think you give too much credit to the level of technical knowledge of the average person.
      - catalogia 6y ago
        The average person can't figure out bookmarks now? Do you suppose they also don't know how to tie their own shoes? Most people aren't imbeciles and using bookmarks is well within their capabilities.
        BrandoElFollito 6y ago
        Apparently you have never done support to non-technical users. They understand mouse, keyboard, screen,... and Internet, which is their browser. This is not to make fun of them. I drive a car and only know where to pour gas. I have zero interest in anything else in the car, I just want it to work. Carburator? Spare tire? Not interested.
        catalogia 6y ago
        "Doing support" gives you a very obvious selection bias: The people who come to you are the people who need help. The people who don't need help don't come to you and go unnoticed. I strongly encourage you to reflect on this and rethink your misanthropic attitude. If you like car analogies so much, the car equivalent of bookmarks is programming the radio's bookmark buttons to tune your favorite stations. I am not a car mechanic, but I sure as shit can do that much. For that matter, I also know that my car doesn't have a carburetor but has a spare 'donut' tire in the trunk. You too probably know these things of your own car. Again, I am not a car mechanic and neither am I some sort of polymath genius with advanced general knowledge across a broad number of domains. Cars interest me about as much as American football, which is to say not even remotely. I'm just a regular Joe who's not a complete imbecile.
        BrandoElFollito 6y ago
- peteretep 6y ago
  > I’ve heard that some single digit percentage of Google searches are people searching for Facebook 50% of the time when going to Facebook I mess up the typing and end up searching for it instead. I suspect that means I’m in those stats.
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    Or worse, you mess up and end up on some phishing site. For people like my mom, I've explicitly told them to search things rather than type in URLs directly.
    - TuringTest 6y ago
      I consider myself quite experienced in technology, and I do that whenever I go to a popular website that it's not in my browser history. I simply don't trust the variety of .com, .org, .net, .io, .tv... domains to know which one is the right one, but Google organic first results below the ads are usually accurate. For downloading software for which I don't know the publisher's name, I usually look for the Wikipedia article and check the "official website" external link. Sometimes I even double-check the article's history, just to be sure.
- Biep 6y ago
  > It hasn't proven too confusing for many people to form a distinction between "the web" and their choice of browser. Though "the web" and "the Internet" are harder to keep apart for many.
squeaky-clean 6y ago
A lot of people who are not particularly computer literate do not really grasp the difference between the web, the browser, and the search engine. Generally it's all just "the google" or similar. At least from my limited tech support experience.

Arathorn 6y ago

To be clear: Riot's new name is not going to use the word Matrix - any more than Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Edge etc use the word "Web". Riot is just one client for Matrix, and it'd be completely unfair if it tried to hijack the name Matrix for its own purposes - and I'd hope that the Matrix.org Foundation would take steps to stop such a thing from happening. So I'm afraid the whole "Is that Matrix?", "Yes, I'm using FluffyChat/Riot/Whatever to connect to Matrix" conversation is still going to be there. Just like someone might say "ooh, what Web Browser is that?". This much is a feature, not a bug.

bhauer 6y ago
Indeed. I hope the name is somehow related to Matrix, however, so that the connection is a bit more obvious. Perhaps Transform or Neo.
- Arathorn 6y ago
  Tragically most of those names have gone (e.g. https://matrix.org/docs/projects/server/transform https://matrix.org/docs/projects/server/transform) - and in the case of Neo, have gone many times over: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/neo https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/neo, https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/nio https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/nio, https://matrix.org/docs/projects/sdk/matrix-nio https://matrix.org/docs/projects/sdk/matrix-nio, etc :D
  - Markoff 6y ago
    that's no reason why it could not be again reused
    - opan 6y ago
      Name collision in general is not good, but also in this specific case they've had issues being confused with the game company called Riot, so I can't imagine they would want to go with an already-used name again if they could help it.
- 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]